Out

[AfghanRam]

Count me in - Sorry I mean out well and truly ****ing out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! About time we ruled our own country again and then we can start kick these ****holes out that the EU tell us we can't. Good they can take them then rant over - OUT OUT OUT ****ING OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alfinyalcabo]

If we do leave Europe..I hope we go somewhere warm...like Florida

[swaledale]

[quote="claw84"]I'm not going to bother arguing, but be careful what you wish for guys - we lost control of the country to multi national corporations, years ago and being in or out of the EU wont change that one bit.

Swaledale, there is a multi national in Shirebrook Derbyshire,they employ 3,500 yes Sports Direct. And guess what most of them are eastern europeans when they are not working they are drinking and p@ssing in the market square and intimidating the townsfolk. If we had control of our borders we could regulate who worked there.

This was a nice vibrant town before joining the EU.


The EU isn't responsible for the demise of Shirebrook, you need to look closer to home for the reason for that even she is dead now!

If we kicked out all the immigrant workers the country would grind to a halt, in short our economy would be ****ed! I was working with a company that set up a factory in Barnsley, to pro

[Rattea]

I'm with Swale on this one. Heart and head. Heart says out but head knows that we are bug here's out. We don't have infrastructure and are not large enough to survive without.

It's ok being a nationalist muppet shouting about our own soverenty and waving flags but see how long that lasts when unemployment is up over 40% and people are in the bread line.

For starters what people forget is yes there are a lot of other nationalities over here with jobs but we are all over the place as a nation more so. My job market that I can walk into no problem no visa is currently 28 countries in EU alone and have and do exploit a fair few of those. I have worked and do work with UK based companies that are global because they get favourable terms dealing with those. That will go with most and we will have to rely even more heavily on places like America and be even more reliant on their economy. Look what happened last time.

And people back here will have to think about the competiti

[AngryRam]

I don't think it's a case of a complete split.. Europe needs us as much as we need them.
Economically there can still be ties.. It suits both parties and that is where the concessions are. Open trade boarders are fine BUT we have to take control back on other issues.. Brussels is rotten and paralysed.. I recently read a near 600 page document on aviation security, which could in essence have been condensed to about 50. I sit on various industry policy groups and we often get EU bods in as speakers.. Waste of time, too many people to get onside so the issue in the end can become so diluted it's worthless.. Even if it was pushed through in time.
Of course there are some good things in the EU but for me as we stand today the negatives outweigh.

History tells us that at some point it will all fall to poo anyway and we will end up at war.

[roger_ramjet]

Brussels is indeed utterly overmanned, bloated mess. A few years ago I had to give evidence to EU Commission competition directorate (or some such). It was low key so just 5 bureaucrats turned up to pose questions although only one spoke. The other 4 took notes.

The hearts and heads argument is very valud and leads to the dilemma of in or out. The emotional border security / immigration issues are strong. The cost factors are unquestionable. But the problems with leaving stem from the transition period as replacement trade deals and agreements are put in place. Disentanglement will not come quickly or easily.

The "jobs for Brits" argument is riddled with problems. Our domestic workforce does not have the skills to do many of the jobs; they have been raised in a benefits environment that make many disdainful of the jobs done by imported labour. The indigenous British labour force is a mess - feckless and either overqualified (too many graduates) or underqualified. No

[claw84]

I accept we need some immigration but it has to be controlled along the lines of the Aussie model based on points such as skills knowledge etc of the job applied for,

As it stands any Tom , **** or Abdul can come from the EU, so that was 330,000 last year the equivilent of a city the size of Hull, taking houses and using services. When will our kids get a home.

This a small island that's why the roads are full, the trains are chokka, the surgeries take time for an appointment, the schools are over full.

It saddens me when I look around some of the sights of London with the Romanian pickpockets and Bulgarian beggars,. at Marble Arch there is a load of homeless eastern europeans pushing their trolleys around full of cr@p. These people also pay no tax.

[swaledale]

I think you sum it up well, what are the true facts? What is the impact of staying in or leaving, when you see the same arguments being used by both sides its clear that getting to the truth is almost impossible.
Much as instinct may say leave, in truth that wont mean much in terms of actual real control of the country.


Rat makes a valid point in that immigration works both ways, many brits work and live in europe, so it wont be a one way ticket.

As for Boris, well a more unprincipled, career politician would be hard to find, he doesn't give stuff whether we are in or out, after all if you have a certain income level such things hardly affect you! His decision is based on what gives him the best chance of being the next Tory leader!

[gaz1959]

The truth could be were not as sorry for ourselves before we joined the tinpot outfit

[swaledale]

Aye it could be, but we have had benefits and there is no denying the economic benefits that immigration has brought this company or the firms like Honda, Nissan and Toyota to but 3 who located manufacturing plants in this company because they had access to the european market.

This country hasn't declined due to our membership, though again theres a hell of a lot wrong with the EU as an institution, it best to reform from within and I believe it cannot sustain in its current from for long.