Reply With QuoteDon't be lured into thinking a 5.5% basic pay rise is generous or good,
I think most workers now days would think that is pretty good
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The simple facts are:Originally Posted by John2
The government wants a 13% increase in basic pay but Saturday working hours paid like a weekday.
The doctors said they'd rather have a basic pay rise of around 5.5% and get a premium for working Saturdays - this would cost the same.
The NHS Employers agreed to this, the Union agreed to this, Jeremy Hunt personally vetoed it to play politics.
Don't be lured into thinking a 5.5% basic pay rise is generous or good, pay and conditions are being eroded in other areas and doctors are far happier with existing contracts with lower basic pay.[/quote]
They want "premium rates" ....so
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Don't be lured into thinking a 5.5% basic pay rise is generous or good,
I think most workers now days would think that is pretty good
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When the dispute is discussed in a sensible way, ignoring such as michaeldc then it is becoming clear that the dispute is about money and the concern that they may have to work some Saturdays..poor things.
I have explained the maximum working hours of doctors and it's pathetically low, in fact it's a problem re their training and experience working such a low number of hours.
I agree with the post about embarrassing interviews, moaning about child care and having to work some weekends.
John2 has hit a complete dead end trying to confuse the issue with irrelevant nonsense.
A money poor doctor is a rare as hens teeth.
They are not highly paid in the first couple of years but rapidly progress to very high remuneration eg 100k plus for a GP and more for a consultant who can also do private work as well as NHS work.
Doctors not wanting to work any more than one weekend in 4 is pathetic...Remember that maximum average 48 hours so look at the days off if they work a weekend!
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This simplistic interpretation of a very complicated pay structure is exactly why people don't understand the strikes.
If your salary was banded paid basic + on average 50% extra for anti social hours and then the goalposts were moved so the same hours achieved an anti social hours bonus of 25%, but your basic pay went up by 10%...
That would be the equivalent of a 9% paycut, despite a 10% 'pay rise'.
Under the new contracts, doctors who currently work sociable hours (Mon-Fri) will receive a pay rise. Doctors who work less sociable hours would receive a pay cut.
Since 99% of junior doctors voted in favour of a strike, its evident that those who would get a pay rise see the new contract as unfair.
Even if you think doctors are greedy, and you bemoan them getting overtime for weekend w
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Here we go with insults from John.
He now freely admits that we have doctors who don't want to work what he calls antisocial hours!
How pathetic is that?
We all better get ill on a weekday before 5 pm then as nobody wants to work the other hours.
Keep the insults coming John2
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[quote="John2"]I've simplified a complex debate, and different people have different priorities, but the biggest outstanding sticking point is Saturday working.
The problem is some junior doctors have jobs that involve more Saturday working, while others have more routine Mon-Fri type jobs.
Currently, doctors expected to work more weekends get paid more than doctors who don't.
If they make Saturdays pay same as a week day, it disproportionately hurts doctors whose roles involve more weekend work, as they end up working less sociable hours with no incentive (money) for doing so.
If, as the doctors suggested, working saturdays carried a premium, it would be fairer for those that do.
The NHS already has a recruitment crisis. Making it an even less desirable place to work will lead to shortages (which we're already seeing). That's really bad for patient safety. There have also been concerns over the eroding of safeguards that prevent doctors working
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Do you think A&E junior doctors deserve a higher rate of pay than dermatology junior doctors for working anti social hours?
Do you think a '7 day NHS' is going to radically change the working week of dermatology doctors?
I'm not saying doctors don't want to work anti social hours, they already do as you well know. I'm just saying the doctors who works anti social hours deserve to be better compensated than those that don't.
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I don't think that argument holds water, John. What is someone to do if they get a really bad outbreak of acne at the weekend? Should they be denied a dermatologist and have to rely upon TCP?
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Let's be frank for a moment, kempo. You're retired. You're out of the profession. Do you really know what's going on with the contract or are your posts all to do with your desire to get one over on posters who have disagreed with you or failed to tug the forelock in your direction in the past?
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You are a bit rude kerravon.
Clearly you don't want to discuss things with someone who knows what he is talking about.
I would have thought it obvious that I know about the contract.
You are welcome to join up with your pal john2 to throw insults but that doesn't help your arguments in any way.
Why do some striking doctors hold banners that say Tired doctors make mistakes?
Why will they be more tired on the new contract?
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