OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

Just to cherry pick some information, the FTSE 250 is today at 17,816.87, compared to today 2015 when it was 16,917.34 (source google finance), so during what is undoubtedly an uncertain period (you won't find many Brexiters that didn't expect short term uncertainty), the economy is looking pretty stable, strong, and growing.

That of course doesn't prove anything, but it's easy to panic in the shorty term, and the gloom merchants (not aimed at anyone in this thread) will grasp hold of anything that gives them a "told you so, its all your fault, we're doomed" sense of achievement.

I actually think it could be aimed at some on this thread....

Just another statistic, the £ fell by roughly the same in the period from January to ealy June as it has between late June and now, I don't think most people even noticed the former....

[ramAnag]

I think one thing that Brexit and the Trump phenomenon has done has given a voice back to 'the people' who are sick of being told what to do by an elite.

Edit: Although I defo DON'T want Trump's finger on the nuclear button. Way too easily would up, there are just too many countries out there that might piss him off.....

Edit 2 Well put there RR

Apart from repeatedly chastising me about my mathematical (in)ability in a way all too remeniscent of my increasingly balding and despairing Maths teacher back in 1970, I agree...RR puts the case well, last daft sentence apart, but ultimately agrees...we're all going to be worse off...thanks to Brexit.

Not sure who you think 'the people' are that Trump 'represents' though Andy. Certainly not the majority of female, Black, Hispanic, Muslim or Asian Americans. Possibly about 40% of White American males which personally - being a white male who loves spending time in the U.S. - I find thoroughly depressing.

Given Farage's recent behaviour there's presumably a significant overlap between the mindset which supports Brexit and the one which identifies with Trump. Probably the same mindset which supports capital punishment and Thatcher's, now thankfully entirely discredited, eighties stance against homo***uality. She was wrong then and, imo, the Brexiteers are making an equally grave mistake now, but at potentially far greater cost.

[roger_ramjet]

Apart from repeatedly chastising me about my mathematical (in)ability in a way all too remeniscent of my increasingly balding and despairing Maths teacher back in 1970, I agree...RR puts the case well, last daft sentence apart, but ultimately agrees...we're all going to be worse off...thanks to Brexit.

To clarify, Mangara - I did not say we would be worse off, I said that we would have to pay more for imported goods and CPI inflation would go up.

That is not the same as being worse off - as a nation a weak currency is good for business and our exports, so we could benefit from it. Our unit labour cost is cheaper than other countries in their base currency so this could attract capital and manufacturing industry back to our shores. Our economy could be more vibrant, even though the people are having to cut their cloth a little to deal with increased costs.

The issuing is in managing this disconnect: can the government ensure that the increased wealth creation is shared out so that those facing the worst of the increased costs get some payback. Traditionally this taks has proved beyond most governments and the economic wealth of the nation stays in too few hands.

What is therefore predictible is that the nation will be better off but the needy will be worse off. There may be more jobs available, but past experience has shown a marked reluctance amongst the most needy to do a days work as the "entitlement culture" seems well established (OK I know Ive lost your support here Mangara). The challenge therefore is for more people to share in the wealth pool due to their good endeavours. Probably an impossible mission, but we can at least theorise.

[Andy_Faber]

What is therefore predictible is that the nation will be better off but the needy will be worse off. There may be more jobs available, but past experience has shown a marked reluctance amongst the most needy to do a days work as the "entitlement culture" seems well established (OK I know Ive lost your support here Mangara). The challenge therefore is for more people to share in the wealth pool due to their good endeavours. Probably an impossible mission, but we can at least theorise.

.....To stand within the pleasure dome
Decreed by Kubla Khan
.... Oh, I will dine on honey dew
And drink the milk of paradise....

Getting a bit utopian there RR

Hoever I think that's where we'll end up too. The 'rich' will stay rich, and probably more so because that's how it goes, a vast swathe of folk will feel better off because they can buy curved bananas and see a few crims off home a bit quicker but will actually have less to spend, and those who have the choice of a bit of graft and the chance of progression versus a lifetime watching daytime TV will choose the latter, grab what they can (at my expense) and whinge about what they can't. And although in the last 100 pages of meanderings I've probably come over as hostile to minoritie/newbies, if I could swap out each British loafer for an Eastern European grafter I think I probably would.

[ramAnag]

To clarify, Mangara - I did not say we would be worse off, I said that we would have to pay more for imported goods and CPI inflation would go up.

That is not the same as being worse off - as a nation a weak currency is good for business and our exports, so we could benefit from it. Our unit labour cost is cheaper than other countries in their base currency so this could attract capital and manufacturing industry back to our shores. Our economy could be more vibrant, even though the people are having to cut their cloth a little to deal with increased costs.

The issuing is in managing this disconnect: can the government ensure that the increased wealth creation is shared out so that those facing the worst of the increased costs get some payback. Traditionally this taks has proved beyond most governments and the economic wealth of the nation stays in too few hands.

What is therefore predictible is that the nation will be better off but the needy will be worse off. There may be more jobs available, but past experience has shown a marked reluctance amongst the most needy to do a days work as the "entitlement culture" seems well established (OK I know Ive lost your support here Mangara). The challenge therefore is for more people to share in the wealth pool due to their good endeavours. Probably an impossible mission, but we can at least theorise.

Actually you didn't lose my support there Roger...I recognise the need for a climate of social responsibility in terms of protecting the weakest amongst society. I most certainly do not recognise the need for an 'entitlement culture' in terms of a 'scivers charter' and I would go further to argue that the 'entitlement culture' is just as pertinent to the wealthy and 'inheritance blessed' as it is to those more regularly percieved as being amongst the poor and needy.

Agree totally and absolutely with your 'challenge' but imo some of the greedy and grasping at the top of society are just as likely to prevent it being met as the 'work shy' at the bottom.

Either way, if we have an imminent situation where we have to pay 5% more (your, imo generous, estimation) for our imported goods and, in your own words, where 'the needy will be worse off', I find it difficult to reconcile Brexit with anything other than a general downturn in living standards.

[roger_ramjet]

......and yet bizarrely, the demographics of the vote show that those who will most likely suffer the greatest from this downturn in living standards, and inequitable distribution of any increased national wealth, were the most likely to have voted for OUT. The pensioners, the idle underclass, the chav etc. Hand them a gun, tell them were their foot is. Shoot. This is the downside of voting along the lines of your own "entitlement culture" and voting to remove the (in their minds) undesirable aliens, as opposed to thinking of the consequences.

And yes I agree about the "entitlement culture" not just focussing on the underclass - its as bad at the top end of bankers, inheritors etc. I wrote a long edit making this very point in my original post which was then eaten by the system!.

[roger_ramjet]

.....To stand within the pleasure dome
Decreed by Kubla Khan
.... Oh, I will dine on honey dew
And drink the milk of paradise....

So trivia Question:

What has this quote got to Derby County?









A: Rush

I dont think that is the original STC wording is it?

A damsel with a dulcimer
In a vision once I saw:
It was an Abyssinian maid
And on her dulcimer she played,
Singing of Mount Abora.

[ramAnag]

......and yet bizarrely, the demographics of the vote show that those who will most likely suffer the greatest from this downturn in living standards, and inequitable distribution of any increased national wealth, were the most likely to have voted for OUT. The pensioners, the idle underclass, the chav etc. Hand them a gun, tell them were their foot is. Shoot. This is the downside of voting along the lines of your own "entitlement culture" and voting to remove the (in their minds) undesirable aliens, as opposed to thinking of the consequences.

And yes I agree about the "entitlement culture" not just focussing on the underclass - its as bad at the top end of bankers, inheritors etc. I wrote a long edit making this very point in my original post which was then eaten by the system!.

So we agree then...I think that is just about what Swale and I have been saying since last June.
There are times, Mr Sheep-dribble, when I suspect you could manage an argument in an otherwise empty room.
P.S. See the £ has fallen to a six year low against the € this afternoon. Think it was at a five year high earlier this year...just coincidence I guess.

[macstheman]

Forget the pound what about these frigging plastic fivers, uurrgghh!!

[southernram22]

i dont care if they are plastic or not as long as i get more in my wages.