OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[southernram22]

respect your views swale let me tell you this i went to a seminar near me held by ian duncan smith he quite openly said that here the members of government when in meetings took packed lunches and when he visited brussels they have a large gated shopping area only allowed for use by the commision they only have to hail a cab and its paid for no questions asked etc and that the food is all paid for by us. no one else get these perks why should these bureaucrats be allowed to create this gravy train of greed ? also swale while your on about a generation thats blighted the youngs future what about past generations who gave everything they had for for europe twice do they not count. also when we joined please correct me if i am wrong but i am not we joined a ten state trading bloc not a united states of europe ? which many are now trying to lead us down . the choice is easy stay in and become a one nation no identity country ruled by arrogant non elected bureaucrats. or be a country that democratically makes its own rules and decisions rightly or wrongly for its inhabitents a country where our laws are not overturned by a court in another country ask and german citizen i have some friends there what they think about mrs merkels migrants plan and how the ***ual assults figures have risen by 500% in 6 months or who is actually bailing out greece ? i never overlooked that all the political parties were for remain it shows just one thing how completely out of touch the ruling classes and the banks buissness people are with the general people of this country swale its no good brushing others views under carpet like you have been known to do . you like many others need to open eyes listen and learn . what happens if another referendum took place and the vote was even more to leave would the remain go for a best of three from 5 . its time to see the people are fed up with all politicians whatever party they want fairness not bankers paying themselves immoral wages they dont want footballers being paid silly wages they want food on plates roofs over heads kids in proper staffed schools and an nhs that can cope . if europe gives us all this then i am wrong but swale be honest it does not offer less coruption it is a money pit .

[ramAnag]

Totally agree with virtually all you've said Roger...your point about the 'leave' vote coming from the 'labour strongholds' was what I meant when I spoke of the contradiction between the 2015 Election and the Referendum and I suspect that nowhere was this more manifest than in the English north east.

As for the rest...I don't know what to say. Given the rate that former 'Remains' are moving to 'Leave' on here Swale and I are obviously about as successful at putting our case as Johnson and Gove now appear to be at winning a leadership contest amongst their party. (At least that bit has offered some cheer.)

I agree with Adi on one thing...that it has been a largely excellent debate...and perhaps the one good thing that can come out of the Tory bitterness and Labour chaos will eventually be the emergence of a new moderate party made up of the best of what is, imo, the fairly lamentable bunch of individuals who currently occupy Parliament.

I've answered questions about why I favour Remain. In the continued absence of Cornwall and Manx, I'll ask Roger - our only remaining economic expert I think - what, in your informed opinion, does the economic future now hold if we do indeed proceed down the Brexit route?

[AngryRam]

respect your views swale let me tell you this i went to a seminar near me held by ian duncan smith he quite openly said that here the members of government when in meetings took packed lunches and when he visited brussels they have a large gated shopping area only allowed for use by the commision they only have to hail a cab and its paid for no questions asked etc and that the food is all paid for by us. no one else get these perks why should these bureaucrats be allowed to create this gravy train of greed ? also swale while your on about a generation thats blighted the youngs future what about past generations who gave everything they had for for europe twice do they not count. also when we joined please correct me if i am wrong but i am not we joined a ten state trading bloc not a united states of europe ? which many are now trying to lead us down . the choice is easy stay in and become a one nation no identity country ruled by arrogant non elected bureaucrats. or be a country that democratically makes its own rules and decisions rightly or wrongly for its inhabitents a country where our laws are not overturned by a court in another country ask and german citizen i have some friends there what they think about mrs merkels migrants plan and how the ***ual assults figures have risen by 500% in 6 months or who is actually bailing out greece ? i never overlooked that all the political parties were for remain it shows just one thing how completely out of touch the ruling classes and the banks buissness people are with the general people of this country swale its no good brushing others views under carpet like you have been known to do . you like many others need to open eyes listen and learn . what happens if another referendum took place and the vote was even more to leave would the remain go for a best of three from 5 . its time to see the people are fed up with all politicians whatever party they want fairness not bankers paying themselves immoral wages they dont want footballers being paid silly wages they want food on plates roofs over heads kids in proper staffed schools and an nhs that can cope . if europe gives us all this then i am wrong but swale be honest it does not offer less coruption it is a money pit .

I doff my hat sir..

[AngryRam]

Totally agree with virtually all you've said Roger...your point about the 'leave' vote coming from the 'labour strongholds' was what I meant when I spoke of the contradiction between the 2015 Election and the Referendum and I suspect that nowhere was this more manifest than in the English north east.

As for the rest...I don't know what to say. Given the rate that former 'Remains' are moving to 'Leave' on here Swale and I are obviously about as successful at putting our case as Johnson and Gove now appear to be at winning a leadership contest amongst their party. (At least that bit has offered some cheer.)

I agree with Adi on one thing...that it has been a largely excellent debate...and perhaps the one good thing that can come out of the Tory bitterness and Labour chaos will eventually be the emergence of a new moderate party made up of the best of what is, imo, the fairly lamentable bunch of individuals who currently occupy Parliament.

I've answered questions about why I favour Remain. In the continued absence of Cornwall and Manx, I'll ask Roger - our only remaining economic expert I think - what, in your informed opinion, does the economic future now hold if we do indeed proceed down the Brexit route?

Both yourself and Swaley had put your points across well, it's a shame that nothing you guys have posted even now would have changed my decision. I think this thread shows just how many people were there to be convinced one way or the other.. It also shows just how many of the leavers on here thought about the many facets of this decision and made a considered choice.. I was desperate to find more reasons to stay.. I said all along that nobody could not have pros and cons on either side when making that decision. Perhaps those who voted remain will understand that now and maybe are large portion of that 17 mil did vote after lots of thought.
It also shows and has shown what a mess our political system is in.. Smarmy MPs bleating about listening after every election and then just reverting to type and ignoring the masses. Hopefully one positive for our cousins in the EU is that a message has been sent, loud and clear and the remaining members get a better deal.

[mistaram]

Ramanag You could not be more wrong blaming brexit on Labour strongholds funny how Leicester Manchester Liverpool and even Newcastle all voted remain What you are failing to see that without London and Scotland remain would have been annihilated You can hardly describe Seven Cornwall Somerset or East Anglia as Labour strongholds could you

[AngryRam]

Sorry just to add to my post 134. I do realise that we are a very small group do draw any real conclusions from.. Just an interesting group.

[ramAnag]

Hello mista, where have you been? I've missed you. How come every other bugger can sign in but I have to change my name? You promised to look into this Bloomer...was that just a politicians promise?

Anyway...I'm not really into 'blame' mista and I didn't mean it to sound as if I was 'blaming' Labour strongholds. Just pointing out that areas such as the North East of England which were solidly Labour at the last election were amongst the most surprising areas to deliver such a strong 'Leave' vote in the Referendum. I'd gone to bed by the time the results started coming in (mainly because I was an hour ahead at the time) comforted by the knowledge that Ladbrokes (and Swale) had both called a 'Remain' victory, but I believe it was the closeness of the vote in Newcastle followed by 'Leave' winning in Sunderland when the writing first appeared to be on the wall.
Christ, was it really all just two weeks ago?

I do agree Angry, the 'Leavers' on here have put a lot of thought into their decision. I'm not so certain that that's reflected across the country as I think the behaviour of a minority since the Referendum would suggest.

[ramspride]

I do think the posts on this topic show how good Derby supporters are. Apart from the initial occasional rant about other posts it has developed into a good debate with both supporters of remain and leave airing their opinions. Again both sides have, in the main, thought about the others views and counter replied. To carry the debate further it looks like Theresa May will become PM what do you all think she should do. Whats the way forward? Should we wait until October before starting article 50. Your views will be very interesting.

[AngryRam]

To carry the debate further it looks like Theresa May will become PM what do you all think she should do.

Buy a Rabbit, she is going to need to learn how to relax.

[ramAnag]

Buy a Rabbit, she is going to need to learn how to relax.

...and you called me weird...you and your fantasies. Can't say I share that one.

Don't know why we have to wait till September for May...at least I hope it's May...the other one just looks (and sounds) like Thatcher Mk2...and please God, no to that!

P.S. I think she should forget all about article 50 RP...pretend it never happened. Oh no...now look what I've done