OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Totally agree with that last paragraph Andy. Either that or we should have recognised that, a society that has to be told not to drink and drive, not to steer a vehicle while making a mobile phone call, that smoking is actually bad for you or that eating too much and taking no excercise might just lead to obesity probably wasn't ever capable of processing the information to reach a decision of such lasting social and economic significance.

[Andy_Faber]

Totally agree with that last paragraph Andy. Either that or we should have recognised that, a society that has to be told not to drink and drive, not to steer a vehicle while making a mobile phone call, that smoking is actually bad for you or that eating too much and taking no excercise might just lead to obesity probably wasn't ever capable of processing the information to reach a decision of such lasting social and economic significance.

I repeatedly refer back to the Radio 4 programme 'More Or Less' on the saturday before the vote, which spent two hours reducing all the lies and exaggerations down to hard facts (marginally favouring 'Remain' as it did so, my take only, they did not offer an opinion). £350m, for instance, was outed as a lie BUT the programme did confirm that there WAS a number, and its about £170m from memory, so not small change by any means. I also recall it confirmed that LEGAL migration from EU was economically beneficial in the short term, but adding in illegal immigration and the social impact of early-arrivers' dependants, it was not beneficial in the medium/long term.

Enlightening stuff, but too late and too sparsely broadcast (it being Radio 4...)

[Trickytreesreds]

Blimey...you don't forget do you? I'm sorry if that hurt so much. At the time you seemed to be associating all foreigners/immigrants with negative traits. I thought, in the context of the, at the time, recent referendum result that you were displaying xenophobic tendencies. Since then, although we often differ, I have - for what it's worth - come to recognise you as one of the more reasonable and rational Brexiteers although the post immediately above is just daft.
The same cannot be said of everyone. Tricky for instance regularly resorts to abuse and seems to delight in the prospect of Europe in ruinous flames. That, to me and others, is unacceptable. He regularly launches into aggressive attacks on Swale and on this occasion he was - disappointingly imo - joined by mista and woolwacker.
It's not my business to defend Swale, he's more than capable of managing that himself, but although I accept there has been juvenile name calling on both sides the real nastiness, from Remainers being told to 'leave if you don't like it' to Asians and Eastern Europeans being taunted and attacked in the aftermath of the vote right through to the treatment of Gina Miller, murder of Jo Cox and threats of 'civil war' has come from the Right. Compared to all that any harsh words from Swale really do pale into insignificance.

Sorry Ramanag, gonna pull you up here. If yopu read back, that despite my deliberate absence Swale has continued to quote/use my name in derogatory attacks in his agenda. If he wants to have a go at me fine, I'm man enough to take it. But his abuse knows no bounds at times and you sit back and ignore it, because his stance is in your court.
If you are going to take a moral high ground, look at the over all picture please.

[ramAnag]

Sorry Ramanag, gonna pull you up here. If yopu read back, that despite my deliberate absence Swale has continued to quote/use my name in derogatory attacks in his agenda. If he wants to have a go at me fine, I'm man enough to take it. But his abuse knows no bounds at times and you sit back and ignore it, because his stance is in your court.
If you are going to take a moral high ground, look at the over all picture please.

Pull me up? Sorry Tricky, really can't be bothered to trawl back through everything but let's just go back as far as post 1654. For once you aren't talking about Europe burning but in it you call Swale a 'cock', 'Cameron and Osborn's love juice incarnate' and a 'weasel'. You tell him to 'shut the **** up', that 'he doesn't know **** all' and then have the audacity to refer to the 'vitriol of abuse' being used against you by the 'Liberal Left'.
Additionally you bang on about 'we are British', 'the programme' and claim that the terms 'racist, xenophobe and bigot' are only used to 'frighten and abuse' people.
You really couldn't make it up and I'm not taking any 'moral high ground', but I do think this may well be a case of you being hung by your own petard.

[Trickytreesreds]

Pull me up? Sorry Tricky, really can't be bothered to trawl back through everything but let's just go back as far as post 1654. For once you aren't talking about Europe burning but in it you call Swale a 'cock', 'Cameron and Osborn's love juice incarnate' and a 'weasel'. You tell him to 'shut the **** up', that 'he doesn't know **** all' and then have the audacity to refer to the 'vitriol of abuse' being used against you by the 'Liberal Left'.
Additionally you bang on about 'we are British', 'the programme' and claim that the terms 'racist, xenophobe and bigot' are only used to 'frighten and abuse' people.
You really couldn't make it up and I'm not taking any 'moral high ground', but I do think this may well be a case of you being hung by your own petard.

Which is fine, for you to take that stance. You missed the point completely, that if you want to have a go at me then do so. But why then do you say absolutely nothing to Swale and his rhetoric?
I had been off this topic over Christmas, yet see my name pop up again and again.
Double standards and so in tune, with the defence put forward.

[ramAnag]

Which is fine, for you to take that stance. You missed the point completely, that if you want to have a go at me then do so. But why then do you say absolutely nothing to Swale and his rhetoric?
I had been off this topic over Christmas, yet see my name pop up again and again.
Double standards and so in tune, with the defence put forward.

Tricky...not sure how I've missed the point or what Swale's 'rhetoric' has got to do with me. This whole row, if that's what it is, is concerned with what you wrote on New Years Day and the fact that mista - misguidedly imo - immediately jumped on the bandwagon to have a go at Swale. If you look at what you wrote and what mista, followed by woolie, then went out of their way to agree with you can hardly be surprised if there's a reaction, but it then seems to be Swale who always cops the criticism.
For my part, you're right...I agree with much of what Swale says about Brexit. I don't always agree with the way he says it but that's his business and you're certainly in no position to play the injured innocent.
What I do know is that I can have a productive and reasonable debate with the likes of AF, RR, Adi, Stenson, mista and even Ram59 without anyone resorting to abuse. The same cannot always be said about you and I do find your repeated regurgitation of the the right wing press' views on Brexit and constant delight at the concept of Europe destroying itself to the extent that it becomes a flaming ruin infinitely more offensive than anything written by Swale.

[roger_ramjet]

Tricky...not sure how I've missed the point or what Swale's 'rhetoric' has got to do with me. This whole row, if that's what it is, is concerned with what you wrote on New Years Day and the fact that mista - misguidedly imo - immediately jumped on the bandwagon to have a go at Swale. If you look at what you wrote and what mista, followed by woolie, then went out of their way to agree with you can hardly be surprised if there's a reaction, but it then seems to be Swale who always cops the criticism.
For my part, you're right...I agree with much of what Swale says about Brexit. I don't always agree with the way he says it but that's his business and you're certainly in no position to play the injured innocent.
What I do know is that I can have a productive and reasonable debate with the likes of AF, RR, Adi, Stenson, mista and even Ram59 without anyone resorting to abuse. The same cannot always be said about you and I do find your repeated regurgitation of the the right wing press' views on Brexit and constant delight at the concept of Europe destroying itself to the extent that it becomes a flaming ruin infinitely more offensive than anything written by Swale.

But the point is Mangara, Tricky is entitled to his opinion, however much you despise it. Swale is not entitled to resort to personal abuse of someone who merely stated that he agreed with a post of Tricky's. The Board does not seek to govern opinion but it does govern conduct and that is what is offensive about Swale's abuse. I generally agree with much of what Swale has to say on this matter but its the way he says it that comes over as arrogant, "I know best so you shut up" and patronising. There is no place for this in this environment. Tricky is equally opinionated (if indeed they are his opinions or if he is parroting others opinion simply to wind people up but has not repeatedly crossed the line of acceptability.

But hey, I'm not a mod so my opinion doesnt matter: sadly noone else is interested. So be it.

[ramAnag]

But the point is Mangara, Tricky is entitled to his opinion, however much you despise it. Swale is not entitled to resort to personal abuse of someone who merely stated that he agreed with a post of Tricky's. The Board does not seek to govern opinion but it does govern conduct and that is what is offensive about Swale's abuse. I generally agree with much of what Swale has to say on this matter but its the way he says it that comes over as arrogant, "I know best so you shut up" and patronising. There is no place for this in this environment. Tricky is equally opinionated (if indeed they are his opinions or if he is parroting others opinion simply to wind people up but has not repeatedly crossed the line of acceptability.

But hey, I'm not a mod so my opinion doesnt matter: sadly noone else is interested. So be it.

Of course Tricky is entitled to his opinion, has anyone said otherwise? Feel you're missing the point. No one used more personal abuse than Tricky in the post I quoted. Mista then - untypically - jumped in to say he agreed with every word, followed by woolie saying what an 'awful person' and 'keyboard bully' Swale is. All I'm saying is...don't be surprised when there's a reaction.
Anyway I'm bored with the whole thing now...like kids in the schoolyard and it let's both the thread and the board down imo. Not sure where your self righteous indignation has come from either...I may be wrong - and if I am I'll apologise - but weren't you one of the leading lights in the move to East Fife and Swindon last year after swearing like the sweariest of sweary things at Rats?

P.S....and yes I know some of that was justified.
P.P.S....but no more than at Tricky.

[roger_ramjet]

Of course Tricky is entitled to his opinion, has anyone said otherwise? Feel you're missing the point. No one used more personal abuse than Tricky in the post I quoted. Mista then - untypically - jumped in to say he agreed with every word, followed by woolie saying what an 'awful person' and 'keyboard bully' Swale is. All I'm saying is...don't be surprised when there's a reaction.
Anyway I'm bored with the whole thing now...like kids in the schoolyard and it let's both the thread and the board down imo. Not sure where your self righteous indignation has come from either...I may be wrong - and if I am I'll apologise - but weren't you one of the leading lights in the move to East Fife and Swindon last year after swearing like the sweariest of sweary things at Rats?

P.S....and yes I know some of that was justified.
P.P.S....but no more than at Tricky.

Quite right Mangara - I swore at Rats and was given a yellow card, knew I would be and accepted it. Thems the rules. My point is that there is no longer any moderation here now, as evidenced by this "fracas", so DCFC Mad has become the new East Fife - which you will remember was closed down for being unmoderated. This whole escalation could have been avoided if there was sensible moderation (or indeed any). Chris and Ramondo no longer seem to be involved, Ratty posts once in a blue moon, Bloomer has always delegated day to day moderation. So now the lunatics run the asylum !

The lunatic is in my head. The lunatic is in my head. You raise the blade, you make the change, you re-arrange me 'til I'm sane. You lock the door and throw away the key. There's someone in my head but it's not me.....

My self righteous indignation as you put it is my way of saying "enough is enough" As you say, schoolyard kids

[Andy_Faber]

Quite right Mangara - I swore at Rats and was given a yellow card, knew I would be and accepted it. Thems the rules. My point is that there is no longer any moderation here now, as evidenced by this "fracas", so DCFC Mad has become the new East Fife - which you will remember was closed down for being unmoderated. This whole escalation could have been avoided if there was sensible moderation (or indeed any). Chris and Ramondo no longer seem to be involved, Ratty posts once in a blue moon, Bloomer has always delegated day to day moderation. So now the lunatics run the asylum !

The lunatic is in my head. The lunatic is in my head. You raise the blade, you make the change, you re-arrange me 'til I'm sane. You lock the door and throw away the key. There's someone in my head but it's not me.....

My self righteous indignation as you put it is my way of saying "enough is enough" As you say, schoolyard kids

In the absence of mods, can I make a suggestion that applies to an unmoderated but well-controlled music forum I inhabit, where the instruction is 'if a thread turns nasty, please remember this isn't 'real', life, and getting involved won't save a life. Please just visit another thread, another forum, or do something 'real' for a while. That way, the forum will moderate itself.' And that forum is mainly populated by Welsh folk, so if they can suppress their inbred anger with life, I think we should try that simple rule too. PS only kidding about the anger, taff.