OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

you're assuming the electorate's considerations are as nuanced as your own, which I would suggest is probably not the case. I think such slogans DO make a difference

Regarding your other comment about the Tories employing racists in their team, I have to counter by pulling the Diane Abbott card. As I said earlier, there are no clean hands

Not sure you've been following Andy, that card's been played, in fact it was Ram59's opening gambit...Lynton Crosby was offered in response.

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure you've been following Andy, that card's been played, in fact it was Ram59's opening gambit...Lynton Crosby was offered in response.

I'm a busted flush as usual

[Ram59]

But clearly you favour one party so don't actually believe they're all as bad as each other and - to quote you - all I'm saying is a 'straight' leader wouldn't have a racist leading her election campaign.

I don't believe that Corbyn is an 'idiot' but I do think he's a naive idealist and that he's the biggest obstacle to the Tories winning with a substantial majority. Not entirely insurmountable though.

You really think the 'Coalition of Chaos' is that good Andy? I'd suggest it could be used against them. To take alliteration a stage further it could be suggested that the Tory party itself is a coalition of chaotic convenience. I hold politicians in general in pretty low regard but there really is no more disparate group of back stabbers than the current Tory party. I was pleased when May became PM, simply because she was the only one of the otherwise lame duck candidates with any credibility at all, but her complete about turn over this election, having repeatedly said that any snap election would be bad for the country, now calls her integrity and judgement into question imo.

Of course I can believe they're as bad as other and still favour one party, because generally speaking, I believe that that party's policies are best for the country. Even though the actions of some of their members can make me cringe at times.

I personally favoured the Tory/liberal coalition, but I don't think that would work now. That's why I'm disappointed that Corbyn is reducing the opposition to being ineffective.

My comments are in response to the claim that Corbyn is straight. Nothing else has any relevance. May being a mass murderer wouldn't make Corbyn more or less straight.

[ramAnag]

Of course I can believe they're as bad as other and still favour one party, because generally speaking, I believe that that party's policies are best for the country. Even though the actions of some of their members can make me cringe at times.

I personally favoured the Tory/liberal coalition, but I don't think that would work now. That's why I'm disappointed that Corbyn is reducing the opposition to being ineffective.

My comments are in response to the claim that Corbyn is straight. Nothing else has any relevance. May being a mass murderer wouldn't make Corbyn more or less straight.

At the risk of entering the realm of semantics...you can't 'believe they're as bad as each other' while believing that one 'party's politics are best for the country'. That is just contradiction and makes no sense.

I agree with you about the coalition Government. The LibDems, along with the more reasonable Conservatives toned down the excesses of the Tory right and just look at the chaos that has ensued since...Cameron and gorgeous George lasted how long...thir**** months...once they won their own working majority?

As regards your comments on 'straight' politicians. That's sadly become almost another contradiction but you introduced the 'R' word into the debate with your reference to Diane Abbot. She has, imo, always been inclined to be a 'foot in mouth' politician, a classic 'empty vessel' who has progressed as far as she has principally as a result of her race and gender. The re-employment by Mrs. May of a man who has a record of using racist tactics to orchestrate the current Tory election campaign is, for me, of greater concern.

[swaledale]

Of course I can believe they're as bad as other and still favour one party, because generally speaking, I believe that that party's policies are best for the country. Even though the actions of some of their members can make me cringe at times.

I personally favoured the Tory/liberal coalition, but I don't think that would work now. That's why I'm disappointed that Corbyn is reducing the opposition to being ineffective.

My comments are in response to the claim that Corbyn is straight. Nothing else has any relevance. May being a mass murderer wouldn't make Corbyn more or less straight.

I believe Corbyn is more or less straight, he says what he believes and does not employ the spin and confuse tactics of other politicians, neither is he one of these smart suited and booted professionals and he does actually live his life according to his beliefs - its interesting that we expect politicians to be better than the electorate who judge them harshly.

Maybe straight is the wrong word - in any field of human interaction, one cannot be totally "straight". so i will call him authentic, he does what he says he believes what he says, to a greater extent than others who will say anything they believe the electorate wants to here!

As for the Tories being better for the country, well recent history suggests otherwise - cameron led the country into an unneccessary referendum for party political reasons not in the interests of the country, who can calculcate the time and effort and the eventual cost of Brexit? I'm talking merely about the effects and cost of the referendum and the activites that have gone on since, not what may happen afterwards.

May is leading the country into an unnecessary election, for political reasons not in the interests of the country and the Tories generally do what their paymasters (who certainly don't have the interests of anyone on average incomes at heart).

meanwhile the NHS is in crisis, social care is a scandal which is resulting in misery, the railways cost the taxpayer more in subsidy than when they were nationalised and cost us more in fares.

Has any party got a viable alternative at this moment in time? Probably not and thats where Corbyn falls down badly, the only upside of this election is that hopefully it will see his removal as leader of the labour party and we may get a stronger opposition back, on that point I agree with you.

[ramAnag]

I believe Corbyn is more or less straight, he says what he believes and does not employ the spin and confuse tactics of other politicians, neither is he one of these smart suited and booted professionals and he does actually live his life according to his beliefs - its interesting that we expect politicians to be better than the electorate who judge them harshly.

Maybe straight is the wrong word - in any field of human interaction, one cannot be totally "straight". so i will call him authentic, he does what he says he believes what he says, to a greater extent than others who will say anything they believe the electorate wants to here!

As for the Tories being better for the country, well recent history suggests otherwise - cameron led the country into an unneccessary referendum for party political reasons not in the interests of the country, who can calculcate the time and effort and the eventual cost of Brexit? I'm talking merely about the effects and cost of the referendum and the activites that have gone on since, not what may happen afterwards.

May is leading the country into an unnecessary election, for political reasons not in the interests of the country and the Tories generally do what their paymasters (who certainly don't have the interests of anyone on average incomes at heart).

meanwhile the NHS is in crisis, social care is a scandal which is resulting in misery, the railways cost the taxpayer more in subsidy than when they were nationalised and cost us more in fares.

Has any party got a viable alternative at this moment in time? Probably not and thats where Corbyn falls down badly, the only upside of this election is that hopefully it will see his removal as leader of the labour party and we may get a stronger opposition back, on that point I agree with you.

In a nutshell...well put...where's that 'like button' when you want it?

Such a pity that there has been no viable, articulate opposition in the last twelve or fif**** months when the country has so desperately needed one.

[Ram59]

You 2 need to set up your own little 'love nest' post, so you can canoodle in private.

[ramAnag]

You 2 need to set up your own little 'love nest' post, so you can canoodle in private.

I agree with him, what's wrong with that? Don't always agree with him although, where politics is concerned, I seem to have rather more in common with Swale than you. We used to have the 'like' thingamibob to press but that was done away with in the last lot of 'improvements' so I acknowledged a point well made...nice distraction tactic though.

[roger_ramjet]

You be careful pressing Swale's little thingummybob, he might start to like it himself

[Trickytreesreds]

Point taken Ram59, though I think your splitting hairs on this one, I've never seen anyone more "sitting on the fence" than Corbyn did on Brexit.

Abbott' saying rascist? Mm by implication maybe but sounds more like a quick response that she realised sounded wrong at the time, so I think your being very harsh on calling her a Rascist, we would all be tainted on that score.

Sorry Swale, there is no splitting hairs here.
She's an outed racist on many occasions and like lots of remainers, calls Brexit voters racist as a weapon.
If you don't see that, then wow.
If a white politician spoke like her, then there would be riots.


http://news.sky.com/story/diane-abbo...affes-10482258