OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure that may necessarily gives proper answers but she does avoid putting foot in mouth too many times, whereas with Abbott and Corbyn, sometimes they seem to be permanently biting their toes!

....and without saying I agree with his politics, John McDonnell did a good job on R4 this morning of sweeping up the car crash that was Abbott's efforts yesterday, and giving a pretty calm, sensible answer to some of the same questions. Properly briefed/researched, sounded unflustered, had some easy interaction with his interviewer, in the Andy Faber world the swingometer moved a notch to Labour this am. I actually think he's done a reasonable job right the way through the Corbyn/Abbott era of covering for their ineptitude

[ramAnag]

Thank God you two have kissed and made up and we can return to the matter in hand. My take is that Abbott should be gagged forthwith. She's a political liability and Corbyn's response yesterday was almost as inadequate. Having said that and back completely on the topic of this now ten month old thread...isn't the talk of how fractious Mrs. May's dinner debate appeared to be and the fact that Brexit might cost us as much as €100 billion () of rather more importance? Is this really - along with all the other things that have emerged since last June - what those who voted for Brexit actually wanted?

[Andy_Faber]

Thank God you two have kissed and made up and we can return to the matter in hand. My take is that Abbott should be gagged forthwith. She's a political liability and Corbyn's response yesterday was almost as inadequate. Having said that and back completely on the topic of this now ten month old thread...isn't the talk of how fractious Mrs. May's dinner debate appeared to be and the fact that Brexit might cost us as much as €100 billion () of rather more importance? Is this really - along with all the other things that have emerged since last June - what those who voted for Brexit actually wanted?

You're letting the spin get to you R, talk's cheap, as is Brussells gossip and pro-EU newspaper pap. If it's anywhere near £100m (sorry but bugger referring to it in Euros) I'll be mad as Hell, I want and trust my countrymen to go into commercial battle and come out the winners (and that's being patriotic not racist).

The Greeks are on our side by the way!

[ramAnag]

You're letting the spin get to you R, talk's cheap, as is Brussells gossip and pro-EU newspaper pap. If it's anywhere near £100m (sorry but bugger referring to it in Euros) I'll be mad as Hell, I want and trust my countrymen to go into commercial battle and come out the winners (and that's being patriotic not racist).

The Greeks are on our side by the way!

I'm not letting the 'spin' get in the way at all and I'll happily pocket the difference if you think the difference between £100m and €100m is insignificant despite Brexit doing it's best to make it so.
I am simply asking those who voted Brexit - you didn't Andy as I recall - if they really voted to leave the single market, leave the customs union and pay something between €60-100m for the privilege. I understand that the EU isn't some sort of magic panacea and that some people were fed up about immigration but...is this mess really what you wanted because it all seems a bloody long way from making the country and the NHS better off as we were told last June?

[roger_ramjet]

I'm not letting the 'spin' get in the way at all and I'll happily pocket the difference if you think the difference between £100m and €100m is insignificant despite Brexit doing it's best to make it so.
I am simply asking those who voted Brexit - you didn't Andy as I recall - if they really voted to leave the single market, leave the customs union and pay something between €60-100m for the privilege. I understand that the EU isn't some sort of magic panacea and that some people were fed up about immigration but...is this mess really what you wanted because it all seems a bloody long way from making the country and the NHS better off as we were told last June?

Make your minds up - first you say 100 billion and now 100 million. 100m, be it in Euros or pounds is about tolerable. 100 billion isnt

[ramAnag]

Make your minds up - first you say 100 billion and now 100 million. 100m, be it in Euros or pounds is about tolerable. 100 billion isnt

Sorry...those big numbers again...just call me Diane (no don't!)
I meant...pay something between €60-100 billion for the privilege of leaving and that there actually is a significant difference between the £ and the € where such enormous amounts are concerned.

[Andy_Faber]

Sorry...those big numbers again...just call me Diane (no don't!)
I meant...pay something between €60-100 billion for the privilege of leaving and that there actually is a significant difference between the £ and the € where such enormous amounts are concerned.

I'm not bothered whether its millions billions or trillions, I want our side to fight their corner and come out with a fair deal. My instinct on this is that the EU have regarded UK as one of the sugar daddies of the union, and will try for a punitive deal on the basis that they want some of the holes created by lack of the UK contribution plugging for a few years beyond our membership to stem the tide of anti-EU sentiment.

[AdiSalisbury]

All I see is Junker crying because he's been told his playstation might be taken away. Shall not be taking paper talk too seriously.

[ramAnag]

I'm not bothered whether its millions billions or trillions, I want our side to fight their corner and come out with a fair deal. My instinct on this is that the EU have regarded UK as one of the sugar daddies of the union, and will try for a punitive deal on the basis that they want some of the holes created by lack of the UK contribution plugging for a few years beyond our membership to stem the tide of anti-EU sentiment.

In which case your 'instinct' would appear to have changed quite dramatically since you voted 'Remain', Andy.
I'm certainly 'bothered' whether it's 'millions, billions or trillions' and like you, I now want a 'fair deal' but like it or not we have, all in the name of Cameron trying to unite his Party, made significant enemies amongst our former allies and there is a high price to pay.

[roger_ramjet]

In which case your 'instinct' would appear to have changed quite dramatically since you voted 'Remain', Andy.
I'm certainly 'bothered' whether it's 'millions, billions or trillions' and like you, I now want a 'fair deal' but like it or not we have, all in the name of Cameron trying to unite his Party, made significant enemies amongst our former allies and there is a high price to pay.

I hate to come back to this point again, but it was not all in the name of Cameron trying to unify his party. It was the decision of the majority of people who could be arsed to vote. That is how we got to where we have got to. Those that didnt vote lost their right to a say, yet they are getting a second chance in a way in the June general election.

What now if the Tory mandate to proceed with Brexit is swept away by a tide of sentiment against the right? Would a left centre coalition, possibly with the aid of remain Tories seek to laught Brexit off as all a bit of a laugh - a giggle - and of course we want to stay?

Do we go best of three, or would a LibLab coalition simply proceed with the leave option despite in many cases having won a general election with a diametrically opposed policy? What if the SNP become a significant partner in the balance of the UK (and lets not forget, English) parliament? the price of their support would be , strangely, (1) abandon Brexit and (2) another independence referendum. Of course a successful independence campaign would probably mean that "New Caledonia" would then have to leave the EU and reapply in its own right - which would likely fail.

This leaves a fascinating West Lothian stance. With an SNP minority holding sway in a hung parliament, the coalition would likely always fail to pass any English legislation as the SNP must abstain and so the opposition could / would defeat any proposals and of course face a fairly immediate vote of no confidence: which the SNP could then vote in and thus defeat!!!