OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[roger_ramjet]

Waiving the student loans retrospectively is surely never going to happen. What happens to those (few) foolhardy souls that told their children: "don't wrack up debt, we will pay the tuition fees" - a sort of advance on your inheritance. Would they get a refund?

if its done on a going forward basis then it has a chance of working on a monetary basis, but no way retrospective. It will buy the vote of all those 12 to 17 year-olds who don't fancy paying for their higher education though, so that gives Corbyn, erm, no votes.

[ramAnag]

I'd imagine that until 'Darling Buds'' announcement two or three weeks ago none of the parties thought they had to set out their 'negotiating principles' Adi.

Take your point about some of Labour's promises. Agree with many of the principles of their manifesto but have reservations over the ability of the current main LP 'players' to cost it all out properly. Still, at least they've provided a manifesto...more than some.

I fear I'm beginning to sound a little too much like R4J on how to sell players here and I'm aware that Andy, at least, has infinitely greater negotiating experience but, there are still many decisions to be made on what type of Brexit we are aiming for, so wouldn't it be better - seeing as we went down the ludicrous referendum route in the first place - to have a further referendum when there is actually some flesh on the bones of what we are actually aiming for?

[Ram59]

So how would this further referendum be put?

Are you in favour of the agreement reached?

a, yes
b, no, I want a better deal and then have another referendum
c, no, I want to stay in
d, no, I want a hard brexit
e, none of the above (whatever that could be)

[ramAnag]

So how would this further referendum be put?

Are you in favour of the agreement reached?

a, yes
b, no, I want a better deal and then have another referendum
c, no, I want to stay in
d, no, I want a hard brexit
e, none of the above (whatever that could be)

Very difficult isn't it?
I suppose the crucial aspects would involve questions about the Single Market and the Customs Union, membership or otherwise of which was never really mentioned first time around.
Having said that, the vast majority - and I do not exclude myself - aren't actually capable of reaching an informed decision on such complexities.
Appreciate what you are hinting at but do you still honestly feel that an informed and democratic decision was reached last June...i.e. people understood all the complexities and implications before a decision was reached which represented a clear majority and thus the 'will of the people'.

[Trickytreesreds]

Very difficult isn't it?
I suppose the crucial aspects would involve questions about the Single Market and the Customs Union, membership or otherwise of which was never really mentioned first time around.
Having said that, the vast majority - and I do not exclude myself - aren't actually capable of reaching an informed decision on such complexities.
Appreciate what you are hinting at but do you still honestly feel that an informed and democratic decision was reached last June...i.e. people understood all the complexities and implications before a decision was reached which represented a clear majority and thus the 'will of the people'.

According to current pols Ramanag, 68% now want Brexit to happen. Except certain MP's pushing the same agenda as you.
Why do you cling to ill informed stance?
The vote form said, IN OR OUT.
Everyone had to make up their own mind and it appears very clearly that folks who were in some doubt, have realised the EU are a bag of ****s.
You are entitled to your views on this, but the tide has definitely turned and ****s like Clegg have been outed.

[Ram59]

Very difficult isn't it?
I suppose the crucial aspects would involve questions about the Single Market and the Customs Union, membership or otherwise of which was never really mentioned first time around.
Having said that, the vast majority - and I do not exclude myself - aren't actually capable of reaching an informed decision on such complexities.
Appreciate what you are hinting at but do you still honestly feel that an informed and democratic decision was reached last June...i.e. people understood all the complexities and implications before a decision was reached which represented a clear majority and thus the 'will of the people'.

Forget about last June, it's done with. What you and the libdems are asking for is another referendum. What I'm saying is that I don't think it's possible as there are 4 different choices. Bloody hell, we only got 37% when there were 2 choices. You'd really go off on one, if we had a hard brexit with 18%!

Tell me the alternative referendum.

[ramAnag]

According to current pols Ramanag, 68% now want Brexit to happen. Except certain MP's pushing the same agenda as you.
Why do you cling to ill informed stance?
The vote form said, IN OR OUT.
Everyone had to make up their own mind and it appears very clearly that folks who were in some doubt, have realised the EU are a bag of ****s.
You are entitled to your views on this, but the tide has definitely turned and ****s like Clegg have been outed.

What poll would that be then Tricky? I fully accept it would be a close run thing but 68% in favour...I doubt it, unless it was a poll of Sun/Express readers perhaps.
Also what exactly is my 'ill informed stance'. Disagreeing with you doesn't make me 'ill informed'.

[ramAnag]

Forget about last June, it's done with. What you and the libdems are asking for is another referendum. What I'm saying is that I don't think it's possible as there are 4 different choices. Bloody hell, we only got 37% when there were 2 choices. You'd really go off on one, if we had a hard brexit with 18%!

Tell me the alternative referendum.

I've already acknowledged it would be very difficult. Maybe I'll wait and see how Tim Farron answers that one about the technicalities, but you can't just say 'forget about last June, it's done with'. Clearly it isn't but you are still avoiding my question in #2264.

[Trickytreesreds]

What poll would that be then Tricky? I fully accept it would be a close run thing but 68% in favour...I doubt it, unless it was a poll of Sun/Express readers perhaps.
Also what exactly is my 'ill informed stance'. Disagreeing with you doesn't make me 'ill informed'.

Here's one of many and Farage even threw it in Junckers face https://www.rt.com/uk/388544-brexit-theresa-may-poll/

Your stance on us exiters, not knowing what we voted for, is right out of Clegg and Farrons bible.
It's getting tiresome Sir.

We knew we wanted out and knew there would be consequences.
Why you and those two cannot accept democracy and the change in wind eludes me.

It's over, lets concentrate on the best separation we can. The more people moan and object like Gina Miller gives the EU more case to try and big it up. They have no legal ground to stand on, yet individuals like Spain/Ireland/Romania/Poland are trying to get concessions from free movement, benefits and land grab.
It's bollo

We started with a free trade market and now have a bullying, corrupt, bureaucratic empire.
It is time the club was bought to book
http://www.westmonster.com/68-are-now-pro-brexit/

url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk[/url]

[ramAnag]

Here's one of many and Farage even threw it in Junckers face https://www.rt.com/uk/388544-brexit-theresa-may-poll/

Your stance on us exiters, not knowing what we voted for, is right out of Clegg and Farrons bible.
It's getting tiresome Sir.

We knew we wanted out and knew there would be consequences.
Why you and those two cannot accept democracy and the change in wind eludes me.

It's over, lets concentrate on the best separation we can. The more people moan and object like Gina Miller gives the EU more case to try and big it up. They have no legal ground to stand on, yet individuals like Spain/Ireland/Romania/Poland are trying to get concessions from free movement, benefits and land grab.
It's bollo

We started with a free trade market and now have a bullying, corrupt, bureaucratic empire.
It is time the club was bought to book
http://www.westmonster.com/68-are-now-pro-brexit/

url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk[/url]

Ah, right...your usual ever reliable sources then Tricky.

What is my stance on 'exiters' then that so enrages you?

You have a strange concept of democracy and the 'wind of change' you speak of hasn't exactly continued in France and Holland as you predicted has it?

Clearly it isn't over or this wouldn't be by far the biggest and longest lasting thread this forum has ever seen and - more to the point - we wouldn't be facing a second General Election within two years.

You don't 'bring a club to book' by chucking your toys out of the pram and leaving...there's usually only one loser in such circumstances.