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Thread: OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

  1. #4861
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaledale View Post
    I don't disagree with much of that, BUT I still think its better to be in the tent pissing out, rather than outside the tent pissing in!

    I don't buy the disagreement with whatever nationality is inevitable, human beings are not stereotypes, they are different and not defined by race or nationality, theres an awful lot of Brits I'd be happy to extradite elsewhere in the world!

    Well those 17.4 million are kind of outnumbered by the 40 plus million and most are too apathetic to do anything, however, given the closeness of the vote and a lack of overwhelming mandate, then the solution has to be Brexit with as good a deal as we can get, those who want to cut the ties completely, firstly have to recognise that they have to compromise and secondly that economics trumps everything else, if the country is ****ed economically then noone wins (ell apart from the prominent wealthy Brexiteers who will clean up at everyone elses expense).

    Surely there must be some realism here? I don't get why people are happy to accept blind optimism I hear "it will work out it always does" and nothing to suggest that there is any reality about what the Uk post Brexit will be like - I'll give you a clue, even with a hard Brexit, it will be largely the same as now in that we will still comply with the vast majority of EU laws and regulations (we will have to to trade with our largest trading partner the EU), immigration will remain the same, we are at full employment and desperately short of labour in skilled and unskilled areas, its just we wont have a seat at the negotiating table, we wont have any influence but of course it will be worth it!

    Oh and for those who think trading under WTO rules is going to be fund, there are largely the same restrictions on state aid, subsidies etc, its just it will be the WTO in Geneva who will be calling the shots and not Brussels.

    Oh and did you know that the Government is making plans to destroy 5 million odd lamb carcasses in the vent of a no deal Brexit, because most is exported to the EU and we won't be able to do so without a trade deal! Meanwhile cheap food will flood in from the US and the rest of the world, unaffected by current standards on animal welfare, food hygiene and environmental regulations, whoopee I'll be so glad we get our sovereignty back!
    We won’t need to piss into the tent, it will not be our tent anymore..
    We won’t agree on this, that’s fine. For me you are taking the easy option to stay, leaving will be painful and that’s what the EU are banking on. We will have to work bloody hard and there will be winners and losers.. Industries fail all the time, others spring up.
    Some adjust and survive, some won’t.. It will be the same in or out of the EU.
    A deal is preferable but I doubt it’s possible now unless the new commissioners have a more conciliatory view. Maybe?

  2. #4862
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryRam View Post
    We wonít need to piss into the tent, it will not be our tent anymore..
    We wonít agree on this, thatís fine. For me you are taking the easy option to stay, leaving will be painful and thatís what the EU are banking on. We will have to work bloody hard and there will be winners and losers.. Industries fail all the time, others spring up.
    Some adjust and survive, some wonít.. It will be the same in or out of the EU.
    A deal is preferable but I doubt itís possible now unless the new commissioners have a more conciliatory view. Maybe?

    Thats where the driving over the cliff analogy comes in, its not an easy option to stay, its the most sensible and best option for the UK and its citizens. How on earth is it a sensible decision to become more isolationist, be dependent upon the largesse of bigger countries with more bargaining power and in many cases dubious political views, instead of being part of a group of countries cooperating together?

    Of course we will be outside pissing in, what part of we will still have to observe the vast majority of EU regulations and laws because the majority of our trade is with the EU do you not understand, how do you not realise the inter dependency between the UK and the EU which will continue to be the case after Brexit?

    Your optimism that something will turn up and save the day is misplaced, Brexit has already cost the UK and its citizens millions of pounds, its a self inflicted wound, the only grounds you and the majority of Brexiteers have is that somehow, everything will turn out Ok and if there is further economic fall out, well thats a price worth paying for so called independent sovereignty, which will actually be no greater than now in reality?

    Yet again in a conversation with a Brexit supporter, not one single advantage of brexit can be claimed, just vague assumptions that "everything will turn out fine" and a complete ignoring of the nature of the people who are leading the Brexit charge.

    Anyway we wont be leaving without a deal, IF we actually leave at all, no sane politician who truly has the interests of the UK and its citizens at heart would allow that to happen.

  3. #4863
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    Sep 2011
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    No Deal has to be a weapon in Bojo's/Hunt's armoury or there will be no change to the May deal and Parliament has already made perfectly clear that her deal is unacceptable on several occasions.

    The EU claims there will be no changes. The problem with the May deal is that it could tie the UK into the EU forever and the only thing the UK would be out of would be the decision making process. There would still be the Customs Union, Freedom of Movement and huge annual payments on top of the £39Bn divorce bill.

    You all know how much I am against the EU. Given a choice between May's deal or no Brexit I would plump for no Brexit. THAT is how bad her deal is. As I have said before, these circumstances have been, IMO, deliberately manufactured by May et al with the sole purpose of keeping the UK in the EU or, at worst, as close to full membership as possible without being in. Task fulfilled.

  4. #4864
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaledale View Post

    Of course we will be outside pissing in, what part of we will still have to observe the vast majority of EU regulations and laws because the majority of our trade is with the EU do you not understand, how do you not realise the inter dependency between the UK and the EU which will continue to be the case after Brexit?

    Yet here is me thinking that we will never trade with the EU again. Hmmm.


    Yet again in a conversation with a Brexit supporter, not one single advantage of brexit can be claimed, just vague assumptions that "everything will turn out fine" and a complete ignoring of the nature of the people who are leading the Brexit charge.

    See i'm confused with the benefits of staying and just who these people are who are leading the Brexit charge. Big business? Yet they gain more from being in the EU and indeed it could be argued run the EU. Everyone has a self interest, politician more than anyone. It could be argued that's why some MPs are so anti leaving. The gravy train stops once they lose their seats and they cant now find a nice little EU number to fill the void. I guess they could teach? Change is difficult for some, I understand that but that is not a reason to change. What are these fantastic benefits from staying. Status Quo? Trading with 27 like minded countries? Change from within? Not buying it. The EU is flawed and wobbling.

    Anyway we wont be leaving without a deal, IF we actually leave at all, no sane politician who truly has the interests of the UK and its citizens at heart would allow that to happen.
    ''No sane politician'' I will just leave that there for you to ponder that statement. Better get ready to leave then my wooly friend.
    Last edited by AngryRam; Today at 08:04 AM.

  5. #4865
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadAmster View Post
    No Deal has to be a weapon in Bojo's/Hunt's armoury or there will be no change to the May deal and Parliament has already made perfectly clear that her deal is unacceptable on several occasions.

    The EU claims there will be no changes. The problem with the May deal is that it could tie the UK into the EU forever and the only thing the UK would be out of would be the decision making process. There would still be the Customs Union, Freedom of Movement and huge annual payments on top of the £39Bn divorce bill.

    You all know how much I am against the EU. Given a choice between May's deal or no Brexit I would plump for no Brexit. THAT is how bad her deal is. As I have said before, these circumstances have been, IMO, deliberately manufactured by May et al with the sole purpose of keeping the UK in the EU or, at worst, as close to full membership as possible without being in. Task fulfilled.
    I heard on the news this morning that no deal has never been mentioned in our negotiations with the EU. It's like playing poker with everyone knowing your cards. They were/are laughing at us. Time to go on the offensive.

  6. #4866
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryRam View Post
    I heard on the news this morning that no deal has never been mentioned in our negotiations with the EU. It's like playing poker with everyone knowing your cards. They were/are laughing at us. Time to go on the offensive.
    I concur. The back stop is the biggest sham/lie ever invented.
    Like buying a car but the previous owner keeps the V5?

    Folks forget we was conned into this venture.
    Nothing against free trade.

    WHERE DID WE EVER AGREE TO A POLITICAL UNION, DRIVING FOR EVER CLOSER INTEGRATION?

    Shove your veto where the sun don't shine. It means nothing and always has.
    Think where we started and where we are now. Name me one vote we have ever won in the EU?

    We joined a group of 9 nations of similar levels, for economic benefits.
    Everything looked ideal. Expansion in territory/finance/law/sovereign rights have been forced ever since.

    Hard ball should have been played from day one.
    That's what you get for putting a spineless,remainer at the negotiating table.

  7. #4867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds View Post

    We joined a group of 9 nations of similar levels, for economic benefits.
    Everything looked ideal. Expansion in territory/finance/law/sovereign rights have been forced ever since.

    Exactly, that's why we need out now. Remember 'change from within' though. Worked well so far.

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