Get your very own personalised The Ram Inn gifts!
Page 255 of 260 FirstFirst ... 155205245253254255256257 ... LastLast
Results 5,081 to 5,100 of 5187

Thread: OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

  1. #5081
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    5,316
    Nice alliteration GP...yes Remainers have undoubtedly slowed the process down but you really can’t blame them for a situation that they always and consistently cautioned against.
    Responsibility lies squarely with such political opportunists as Farage and the ERG hardliners and those who were/are gullible enough to believe their lies...imo.

  2. #5082
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    Nice alliteration GP...yes Remainers have undoubtedly slowed the process down but you really can’t blame them for a situation that they always and consistently cautioned against.
    Correct, they need to remain true to their beliefs and put up or shut up. However when it becomes (imo) willful obstruction - in the case of May - that is not in the national interest that she swore to uphold, and becomes her enforcing the undue influence of her personal beliefs..........

  3. #5083
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    5,316
    Far be it from me to defend Mrs. May, I think she was dreadful, but I suppose she was caught between a rock and a hard place...trying, in the name of democracy, to deliver some sort of Brexit, but in the name of common sense and the well being of the nation, to deliver it in its least damaging form.
    Suppose that last sentence sums up my view...why on earth are we even trying to implement something which most - or at least so many - believe will be ultimately damaging to our national well being for the foreseeable future?

  4. #5084
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,289
    I blame May, Cameron and the vast majority of their cabinets and a slight majority of Tory MPs for the sorry mess we are currently in. Cameron would never have come up with the idea in the first place if EU membership wasn't tearing the Tory party asunder.

    The referendum saw more votes cast for Leave than for Remain. That shocked the entire political establishment.

    Cameron felt he was unable to lead exit negotiations adequately as he was against leaving the EU and that he wouldn't get the best out of it for the UK. He decided to resign. He fell on his sword. An honourable act and I commend him for it (but for little else if I'm honest).

    May won the subsequent election to lead the Tories and, therefore, be PM. It allw ent downhill after that.

    The referendum was in June 2016. It was only a couple of months later that the EU had its position set down in writing and agreed by the other 27 member states. That position is almost verbatim the deal May signed but Parliament rejected, rightly IMO, 3 times.

    May et al FINALLY came up with their position after a weekend of cabinet talks at Chequers............... in October 2018!!!!!!! Why on earth did it take 2 and a quarter years for the UK to come up with a standpoint? THAT is, IMO, the major reason May had such a weak bargaining position. She didn't come up with one until it was almost too damned late and then she ditched "No Deal" as an option which was the only real lvereage the UK has/had and despite her saying all along "No deal is better than a bad deal".

    It should surprise noone that I blame May, her cabinet and the Tory party for for the mess negotiations got into and remain in to this day. That 2.25 year delay was and is and shall remain unforgivable.

  5. #5085
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    17,666
    Just been watching CNN.
    USA teetering on recession as red ines being breached everywhere.


    My god what have we done?

    Who'd have thought a yes vote, could effect so much of the world trade markets.
    Germany, Italy, USA ?

    China is next. They,ve been in free fall months.

    "Damn you all, damn you all to hell" ( my best Charlton Heston impression from planet of the Apes)

  6. #5086
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    4,702
    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    Lots of well informed sense there Parky, although if you’re going to apportion blame to May wouldn’t it be fairer to point the finger at the Tory Party as a whole?
    After all it was they...Cameron and Osborn...who came up with the notion of a people’s Referendum to sort out their own Party squabble between the moderates and the hard liners...it was they who then appointed your ‘remainer wolf in Brexiteer sheep’s clothing’ as PM for the next three years...and it is them again who have appointed the back stabbing duo of Johnson and Gove - along with the unelected Cummings - in charge of the direction our country now takes.
    I honestly cannot remember a time when any UK Party of Government has ever displayed such a combination of arrogance, dishonesty and incompetence and yet, such is the inadequacy of the opposition, it still seems that another Tory - Hammond - may be the best hope for leading us out of the current mess.

    You ‘wondered when I’d raise the second referendum again’ did you, Angry?
    You need to pay more attention. Perhaps you’ve been concentrating too hard on making poor and pointless ‘jokes’ out of me being a retired teacher but I have often said that, however unsatisfactory the concept of having a referendum may be, I cannot now see an alternative and, more recently, seeing as we are now in the situation we are, that the choice probably has to be between ‘No Deal’ or ‘Remain’. Sad but what’s your alternative?
    Why do I need an alternative? I don’t want a second referendum.
    I don’t need to concentrate hard on making retired teacher jokes, you are a gift that keeps on giving.

  7. #5087
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    5,316
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryRam View Post
    Why do I need an alternative? I don’t want a second referendum.
    I don’t need to concentrate hard on making retired teacher jokes, you are a gift that keeps on giving.
    Lol...more side splitting humour from the Angry one. ‘Why do I’...’I don’t want’...blah, blah...you’re all noise and bluster AR.
    It’s not all about you, chap...but considering I’m the ‘gift that keeps on giving’ it’s funny how you’ve never got an answer and, as I suspect you well know, my question was...what’s your alternative solution to a second referendum as a way through this impasse so your response of ‘I don’t want a second referendum’ is hardly relevant is it?

  8. #5088
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    17,666

  9. #5089
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    4,702
    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    Lol...more side splitting humour from the Angry one. ‘Why do I’...’I don’t want’...blah, blah...you’re all noise and bluster AR.
    It’s not all about you, chap...but considering I’m the ‘gift that keeps on giving’ it’s funny how you’ve never got an answer and, as I suspect you well know, my question was...what’s your alternative solution to a second referendum as a way through this impasse so your response of ‘I don’t want a second referendum’ is hardly relevant is it?
    You asked me a question which I answered. Not my problem that you are too thick to understand the response.
    In fact you’ve never understood anyone’s answer on here.
    What would make you happy? Would you be happy that I said I wanted a second referendum when my position has always been we’ve already had a referendum. You and Swaledale are really moving into dumb and dumber territory.

  10. #5090
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    5,316
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryRam View Post
    You asked me a question which I answered. Not my problem that you are too thick to understand the response.
    In fact you’ve never understood anyone’s answer on here.
    What would make you happy? Would you be happy that I said I wanted a second referendum when my position has always been we’ve already had a referendum. You and Swaledale are really moving into dumb and dumber territory.
    Jeez...it appears you really have finally lost the plot.
    I have suggested that a second referendum may offer the only way out of the current mess and asked you...’what’s your alternative’?

    Your response was ‘why do I need an alternative...I don’t want a second referendum’.
    I’d ask htf that can possibly be regarded as a serious and sensible response, but I think I’ll leave it there...comprehension clearly isn’t your strong point.

  11. #5091
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,137
    A second referendum cannot offer a way out. It would just complicate things even more if remain won, and not change things one iota if leave won again.

  12. #5092
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    17,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone View Post
    A second referendum cannot offer a way out. It would just complicate things even more if remain won, and not change things one iota if leave won again.
    It wouldn't cange things one iota if the resultwent the other way 48-52 now.
    The elections are going to be warfare for a long time.

    Here's an idea.
    We voted leave, so we leave.

    If another referendum is to be done, it should be done in years time. When things have calemd down.
    The remainers here, are behaving like the SNP.
    Refusing to accept the last referendum and doing everything possible to get another one and try again.
    Of course, the EU loves that. Vote and vote and vote, until you give us the answer we want.
    Of course , it's not like theyve done it before, have they?

    Personally, if we leave, then it'll be all over anyway. It will fracture, just wait and see.
    Italy are watching closely. They won't need much of a push.
    Last edited by Trickytreesreds; 14-08-2019 at 07:21 PM.

  13. #5093
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    5,316
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone View Post
    A second referendum cannot offer a way out. It would just complicate things even more if remain won, and not change things one iota if leave won again.
    You’re right, it’s far from satisfactory GP, I accept that, but it might be the least damaging option.
    The mood of many is changing as illustrated by the change in farmers’ attitudes which you have alluded to elsewhere.
    People are, imo, becoming ever more aware of how misleading and ill thought through certain aspects of the Leave campaign were in 2016.
    If the result were to be repeated I for one will accept, however reluctantly, that to leave the EU is what the country genuinely wants.
    Should the vote be in favour of Remain which, especially given the alarming new prospect of a ‘no deal’ Brexit, is what I expect then I hope those in favour of Leave will accept the situation with similarly good grace.

    Maybe we could follow Tricky’s lead - things you thought you’d never hear - and let Stephen Fry put the Remainer case against Farage, Johnson, Gove and/or Rees Mogg.
    Last edited by ramAnag; 14-08-2019 at 07:47 PM.

  14. #5094
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,137
    So what you are saying is you'd accept a 0-2 defeat, but if it went 1-1 you expect leavers to accept that as a defeat with good grace? Given that remainers have by and large not accepted 0-1 as a defeat, how likely do you think it would be that leavers accept 1-1 as a defeat?

  15. #5095
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    5,316
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone View Post
    So what you are saying is you'd accept a 0-2 defeat, but if it went 1-1 you expect leavers to accept that as a defeat with good grace? Given that remainers have by and large not accepted 0-1 as a defeat, how likely do you think it would be that leavers accept 1-1 as a defeat?
    Arguably it’s 1-1 at the moment, but what I’m really saying is...I do believe the electorate to be better informed now, I don’t believe that campaigners will be able to make the same outrageous and unfounded claims as they did in 2016 and I do think there will be far less complacency on the part of those favouring Remain than was the case three years ago.

    As we agree...it’s not ideal and it is a risk but something has to end the stalemate and I doubt very much that Bodger’s plan is the way forward.

  16. #5096
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    4,702
    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    Lol...more side splitting humour from the Angry one. ‘Why do I’...’I don’t want’...blah, blah...you’re all noise and bluster AR.
    It’s not all about you, chap...but considering I’m the ‘gift that keeps on giving’ it’s funny how you’ve never got an answer and, as I suspect you well know, my question was...what’s your alternative solution to a second referendum as a way through this impasse so your response of ‘I don’t want a second referendum’ is hardly relevant is it?
    You asked me a question which I answered. Not my problem that you are too thick to understand the response.
    In fact you’ve never understood anyone’s answer on here.
    What would make you happy? Would you be happy that I said I wanted a second referendum when my position has always been we’ve already had a referendum. You and Swaledale are really moving into dumb and dumber territory.

  17. #5097
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    5,316
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone View Post
    So what you are saying is you'd accept a 0-2 defeat, but if it went 1-1 you expect leavers to accept that as a defeat with good grace? Given that remainers have by and large not accepted 0-1 as a defeat, how likely do you think it would be that leavers accept 1-1 as a defeat?
    Arguably it’s 1-1 at the moment, but what I’m really saying is...I do believe the electorate to be better informed now, I don’t believe that campaigners will be able to make the same outrageous and unfounded claims as they did in 2016 and I do think there will be far less complacency on the part of those favouring Remain than was the case three years ago.

    As we agree...it’s not ideal and it is a risk but something has to end the stalemate and I doubt very much that Bodger’s plan is the way forward.

  18. #5098
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    17,666
    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    Arguably it’s 1-1 at the moment, but what I’m really saying is...I do believe the electorate to be better informed now, I don’t believe that campaigners will be able to make the same outrageous and unfounded claims as they did in 2016 and I do think there will be far less complacency on the part of those favouring Remain than was the case three years ago.

    As we agree...it’s not ideal and it is a risk but something has to end the stalemate and I doubt very much that Bodger’s plan is the way forward.
    No, it's not 1-1. Not when someone like May, a remainer. Has allowed this country to be bullied and all the facts twisted.
    Had she negotiated like Johnson 3 years ago. The chamce to manouver who have been there.
    The EU give nothing, or did you not learn that with the pathetic attempts Cameron came back with for appeasement?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...7ud8tOWyOnpfKE

  19. #5099
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    5,316
    Quote Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds View Post
    No, it's not 1-1. Not when someone like May, a remainer. Has allowed this country to be bullied and all the facts twisted.
    Had she negotiated like Johnson 3 years ago. The chamce to manouver who have been there.
    The EU give nothing, or did you not learn that with the pathetic attempts Cameron came back with for appeasement?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...7ud8tOWyOnpfKE
    I actually meant 1975 and 2016.

  20. #5100
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    17,666
    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    I actually meant 1975 and 2016.
    Arhhhhhhh the 1975 vote, 1-0? No I don't think.

    Perhaps we should have had another vote?

    “How does the current EU setup differ from what was put before the electorate in the 1970s referendum? I have heard that it was touted as simply a trade agreement.”

    Full Fact readers

    In 1975 the UK held a referendum on continued membership of the European Community.

    This wasn’t presented just as a trade agreement. Other issues discussed at the time related to security, European funding for UK industries and regions, and aid to developing countries.

    That’s not to say that anyone in 1975 knew what the EU would be like in 2016, or how much it would change in the following years.

    The European Community was presented as more than a trade agreement

    During the 1975 campaign, membership of the European Community was presented by both the government and the Conservative opposition as relevant to peace, security, and both regional and international development, as well as to trade and economic cooperation.

    In 1975 the government set out the aims of the European Community as bringing “together the peoples of Europe”, raising living standards and improving working conditions, promoting growth and boosting world trade. They also set out that the EC would “help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world” and “help maintain peace and freedom”.

    In their October 1974 manifesto, the Conservative party outlined the two key ideas behind the EEC as being to maintain security within Europe and to allow European influence in the world, and control over its own affairs, to grow in a world of polarised superpowers.

    The “Yes” and “No” campaigns talked about other issues too

    The “Yes” campaign of 1975 also presented the debate as being about a range of issues, from jobs security to world peace and the Commonwealth.

    One “Yes” campaign claim which with the benefit of hindsight we can say was not true, was that English common law would not be affected by staying in the European Community. We now know that EU law has a significant effect on UK law.

    Meanwhile the official “No” campaign warned of the risk to sovereignty, jobs and food prices. They also raised the issue of lesser trade with the Commonwealth if the UK voted to stay in the European Community and told voters that it would be best for peace, stability and independence if they voted to leave.

    Immigration was not mentioned by either campaign in their official leaflets.

    You've got to laugh

Page 255 of 260 FirstFirst ... 155205245253254255256257 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •