OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[MadAmster]

In point of fact it was the Americans who saved europe from the Nazi's, with a little help from the Russians, albeit we Brits were through geographic fortune able to provide a handy launch pad!

No thats your interpretation rather than what i wrote! If you bothered to look at the context and werent so eager to see an insult then you'd have understood that!

Thats the problem with believing the crap thats been drip fed, a cold hard look at the facts is transposed into a supposed insult, but hey ho I expect nothing less.

As ever, the truth is somewhere in between. Keeping the Germans at bay, aided by our moat, was indeed a deciding factor that kept us out of Hitler's grasp. The US joined in from 1942. They declared war on December 7th 1941 but it was 42 before they got any troops into the UK. The same is true in the Western Desert where UK and other forces were locked in huge battles with Rommel's Panzers. Some of us may be guilty of playing down US involvement in our choice of words. Others may be playing down UK involvement in theirs.

[swaledale]

I'm not playing down the contribution of the Uk, but the US were helping with much needed food and equipment long before they entered the war, but without their involvement we alone would not have had the force to invade and ultimately defeat the germans. As My dad who served in Burma said, Thank God the Japanese were thick enough to attack the the US!

[Ram59]

I'm not playing down the contribution of the Uk, but the US were helping with much needed food and equipment long before they entered the war, but without their involvement we alone would not have had the force to invade and ultimately defeat the germans. As My dad who served in Burma said, Thank God the Japanese were thick enough to attack the the US!

But you do keep highlighting the fact that we have a moat around our island and the involvement of the USA and Russia. But without the resolve of the British people, the moat, the USA and the Russians would not have stopped Hitler.

Also, you claim that by being together in one union of countries, we'll be less likely to go to war with each other. Please tell us how many European countries have gone to war with each other in the last 70 years. The only wars I can think of are the ones between the various states of yugoslavia and the 2 halves of the Ukraine. These were about people who wanted independence from each other. Do we also see Catalonia going down the same path?

[MadAmster]

Oops! Fall outs already between ‘Tony’ Amster and ‘Gordon’ Ramjet.

Maybe a Cabinet is forming...’Amster - PM, Ramjet - Chancellor (best at counting), KCG - Deputy Leader, (because he knows a lot but keeps a low profile), MoP - Home Secretary (longevity...but only if he stops the Farage references), Chief Secretary to the Treasury - Manx.
I’ll do Education ‘cos it’s all I really know about and I like arguing with Roger.
Andy Faber...Housing and Homelessness, Adi...Culture Secretary, Mista...Minister of Sport, Foreign Secretary...Rom...’cos he lives there, Chief Whip...Swale (who else?) Pensions...OTR and Mactm (so much experience), Defence...Ram59, Foreign Aid...anyone but Ram59, Secretary of State for Exiting EU...no longer required (sorry Ram59 ).

Still a few posts to fill...but it’s your Party, MA...and you can cry if you want to.

I had an online chat with 2 friends yesterday and told them of my musings of reversing globalisation, curtailing the banks and the money markets...... they both said that "if the idea looks like being a success your manifesto will be your death warrant, they will take you out".

That may be right but somebody has to take the risk and grab back power from the elite. Democracy is supposed to be "Government of the people, by the people, for the people". Politicians are supposed to represent us, ALL of us and not just their cronies. I am trying very hard to come up with a country that has that type of democracy and keep coming up blank.

[swaledale]

But you do keep highlighting the fact that we have a moat around our island and the involvement of the USA and Russia. But without the resolve of the British people, the moat, the USA and the Russians would not have stopped Hitler.

Also, you claim that by being together in one union of countries, we'll be less likely to go to war with each other. Please tell us how many European countries have gone to war with each other in the last 70 years. The only wars I can think of are the ones between the various states of yugoslavia and the 2 halves of the Ukraine. These were about people who wanted independence from each other. Do we also see Catalonia going down the same path?

Exactly since WW" and the initial formation of the Eu's predecessor there hasn't been war in europe apart from the Balkan states which have always been a problem, so you have just agreed with the point I made. You need to read the history of europe in the 50 years up to the end of WW2 to understand the full picture.

Your kind of overlooking the fact that it is very unlikely that the resolve of the British people would stopped the german advance but for the Moat! We were in fast retreat and its was the Moat that stopped that.

We did not stop Hitler, we contributed to defeating him sure, but in reality without the Russians and Americans we would have been ****ed - we were very close to losing the battle of Britain despite the undoubted bravery and sacrifice made by UK and many other nationalities.

[ramAnag]

Exactly since WW" and the initial formation of the Eu's predecessor there hasn't been war in europe apart from the Balkan states which have always been a problem, so you have just agreed with the point I made. You need to read the history of europe in the 50 years up to the end of WW2 to understand the full picture.

Your kind of overlooking the fact that it is very unlikely that the resolve of the British people would stopped the german advance but for the Moat! We were in fast retreat and its was the Moat that stopped that.

We did not stop Hitler, we contributed to defeating him sure, but in reality without the Russians and Americans we would have been ****ed - we were very close to losing the battle of Britain despite the undoubted bravery and sacrifice made by UK and many other nationalities.

Game...Set...and Match!

[AdiSalisbury]

Back onto Brexit, I've just discovered through my self assessment that 1.1% of my Tax / NI is spent on the UK contribution to the EU budget. No opinion on whether that's a fair amount, but thought I'd share none-the-less.

[roger_ramjet]

It is, as I have said all along, further proof that the EU doesn't cost us that much really and thus economically speaking the exit decision does not truly stack up. But its the federalism and cohesion that kill it for me.

I wonder if that 1.1% is the gross or net cost after what we get back out of it? If it comes from HMRC I would imagine it is gross as they wouldn't necessarily have access to the monies we receive from EU via the CAP, capital grants etc. So in reality the net cost is probably under 1%

Still more interestingly for those Brexiteers who have determined not to join the "taxpayers club" then it sort of costs them nothing to stay in! Amazing how you can spin figures isnt it

[swaledale]

It is, as I have said all along, further proof that the EU doesn't cost us that much really and thus economically speaking the exit decision does not truly stack up. But its the federalism and cohesion that kill it for me.

I wonder if that 1.1% is the gross or net cost after what we get back out of it? If it comes from HMRC I would imagine it is gross as they wouldn't necessarily have access to the monies we receive from EU via the CAP, capital grants etc. So in reality the net cost is probably under 1%

Still more interestingly for those Brexiteers who have determined not to join the "taxpayers club" then it sort of costs them nothing to stay in! Amazing how you can spin figures isnt it

With the UK in and with its Veto then the federalism would not really be an issue for us, but as I've said all along, the likely scenario is that we will be in alignment on regulations etc., allowing the trade to continue and the Eu without us blocking anything to continue down a path which is most likely doomed to failure.

[ramAnag]

It is, as I have said all along, further proof that the EU doesn't cost us that much really and thus economically speaking the exit decision does not truly stack up. But its the federalism and cohesion that kill it for me.

I wonder if that 1.1% is the gross or net cost after what we get back out of it? If it comes from HMRC I would imagine it is gross as they wouldn't necessarily have access to the monies we receive from EU via the CAP, capital grants etc. So in reality the net cost is probably under 1%

Still more interestingly for those Brexiteers who have determined not to join the "taxpayers club" then it sort of costs them nothing to stay in! Amazing how you can spin figures isnt it

Sure you’re right Rog, but you might need some haemorrhoid cream from all this fence sitting.