I do get tired of the Brexiteer shriek...’if you don’t support Brexit you don’t support democracy’! It’s an utter nonsense.
The definition of democracy is the ruling of a society or organisation by the majority of it’s members...the majority of society (electorate) did not vote in favour of Brexit and as for Scotland and N. Ireland...they were overwhelmingly against it.
Coupled with the fact that just under two years ago people didn’t have a clue about the implications of what they were voting for and one may see how ridiculous the whole circus has been and continues to be.
You hope ‘this all goes tits up for years’ do you Tricky? Truly helpful comment and all too typical of the divisive negativity which has always been a hallmark of the Brexitears.
Last edited by ramAnag; 13-06-2018 at 02:35 PM.
Sorry Andy...I thought the Scottish vote was 62%-38% with overall ‘victory’ for Remain in every single council area but I bow to your superior knowledge of Scottish matters...well Mrs.F’s anyway.
If I’m wrong I stand corrected, but the Scottish and N.Ireland majority in favour of ‘Remain’ was significantly greater than the English ‘majority’ to leave was it not? So playing the ‘democracy’ card where Scotland is concerned doesn’t really work...indeed it doesn’t actually work in relation to Brexit at all imo.
What utter tosh of reasoning you imply.
By your definition, NO VOTE EVER, can be accepted again.
we was asked in or out? If you didn't look into that, then you really was a retard. If in doubt, leave it alone.
But the majority of voters said out! Of those that voted, THAT WAS THE MAJORITY, not what you perceive it to be.
Scotland had an independence vote. The majority who voted, wanted to stay part of the Union. The SNP have cried about it ever since. But like you, they won't accept a result either and made it quite clear, it WOULD BE revisited.
So Scotland and Ireland, as part of the UK voted for a majority decision. What next by your definition?
The peoples republic of London?
No, you babies won't accept it. So cause as much chaos as you like. The leavers won't accept it either.
Even if you overturned everything, the leavers would cause chaos politically.
I predict another party rise and can see folks voting for it on principle alone.
So let it go tits up. You and your ilk seem to think it's your way or the highway and the world is wrong. Well it swings in roundabouts sunshine.
I can be as negative as you, id the mood takes me. I wanted us to see this as decided and move on. But no.
So chaos is what you will get. In fact lets go the whole hog and break up the union.
We've been subsidizing the rest of it for decades.
Its you who I'm afraid who has fueled diversity. So be it.
Oops...you seem a bit flustered Tricky...things not going according to plan?
Must be my day for upsetting Forest fans...such is life.
Won’t comment on the Scottish independence vote...a) it’s irrelevant to this thread and b) it’s got little to do with me.
I don’t know about us ‘babies’...seems to be you who has chucked his toys out of the pram with your latest rant.
You may be right about a new party...maybe even two, but, unlike you, I hope it’s productive and that things don’t descend into ‘chaos’.
You might also want to check out the difference between ‘diversity’ and divisiveness before referring to others as ‘retards’...and while you’re at it, explain why those who supported Brexit continue to try and describe themselves as the ‘voice of the people’.
Last edited by ramAnag; 13-06-2018 at 07:43 PM.
Anybody who doesn't understand the Scots wish for yet another referendum don't seem to understand what is going on. They voted 62 to 38 % to remain. They are being dragged kicking and screaming out of the EU. Wastemonster is taking jobs out of Scotland. The Scots are getting less and less say in what happens there.
The government is hell bent on keeping the Scots in one Union whilst taking them, against their will, out of another.
I fully understand the Scots beinf a tad upset.
I wholly accept the point raised by you and Geoff and apologise for any confusion caused. My point was that it is nonsense for certain Brexiteers, in this case Tricky, to continually suggest that to be opposed to Brexit is to be opposed to democracy.
I’ll not go over the 37% argument again...it’s tedious but very, very relevant and if I lived in Scotland or N. Ireland I would be particularly incensed to be accused of being anti democratic over this particular matter.
Is there anything to be learned from the Referendum? Yes, of course there is, but just like the Grenfell Tower tragedy, the powers that be have wasted months and now years failing to address them.
Unlike Tricky I don’t seek a descent into chaos but most reasonable Brexiteers must surely accept that the Referendum was always flawed.
It was like asking someone with a badly damaged leg whether they wanted their limb removed, or someone with cancer if they want heavy duty chemotherapy, without ever having the discussion regarding possible alternatives and consequences.
Personally I doubt that I will ever be anything other than opposed to Brexit simply because it seems to be a very, very bad idea for the future of our country but beyond that, people were lied to, electoral rules were allegedly broken and access to the facts was unforthcoming. The conditions for informed decision making were simply not present.
With all that in mind surely the only solution is either 1) to have another Referendum with people this time being made fully aware of all the consequences and the necessity for a result which actually does reflect a truly democratic result, i.e. the support, one way or another, of a majority of the electorate... or 2) hand the details over to our democratically elected Parliament who could then have a free vote on the content of any deal.
If ‘Leave’ won in such circumstances I for one would be unlikely to change my mind, but I would also fully accept that the result was a free and fair example of democracy in action and get on with it.
Last edited by ramAnag; 14-06-2018 at 09:10 AM.