OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Swale, I was driving between my house and Bakewell a couple of mornings ago...beautiful morning, wonderful landscape when suddenly I passed a rusted and burned out car with the words ‘F*** Brexit’ sprayed on the side.
Of course I agree entirely with the message but deplore the ‘medium’...not only is it unnecessarily abusive but it is also totally unhelpful to those who want to use reason to defeat the Brexit argument.
Can’t help feeling you are the forum equivalent of that trashed car. I agree with your every word in post #3688 and the point is brilliantly made, but a post later you are abusing ‘Amster and accusing him of ‘astounding ignorance’...for what? Putting forward an alternative argument based on something that I, at least, don’t have the same knowledge of?
You and I may agree about virtually everything in relation to Brexit and Trump...I’ll concede that you even have a better understanding of the former but surely logic and reason are the way to win, not bullying abuse which just alienates you and your opinions.
Anyway...got to go...probably about to break my rules and shout abuse at Aaron Banks on the Andrew Marr programme!

[Andy_Faber]

burned out car with the words ‘F*** Brexit’ sprayed on the side. is also totally unhelpful to those who want to use reason to defeat the Brexit argument.

Very good comment RA, and not just as a Swale slapdown. the childish 'Boo hoo its not fair' Remain versus 'Its my ball and you're not playing' of Leave has achieved nothing but more and more division since 2016. Its become so, so difficult to have a sensible, open-minded discussion on this, bitterness, narrow mindedness and sloganeering are well and truly in vogue. Incidentally, Aaron Banks may be an ar*ehole but remember this is UK where its innocent until proven guilty...

[Andy_Faber]

Indeed just as Hitler recognised that firm action needed to be taken to cure Germanys economic ills and right the "wrongs" of WW!!

Lets be clear all decent intelligent and sane thinking people despise Trump - those that say well he is an odious man but hey he gets things done that we think ought to be done, are dangerous people who would go along with a proposition which was yes these Christian zealots are bigoted, racist, ***ist, spew out a lot of crap, undertake the odd tax fraud but by gum they have turned the country's economy around! Mm so exactly where do you draw the line between - basically he is a lying criminal dangerous scumbag who uses peoples base fears to support his agenda, but he is an Ok guy cos he does some good things? Again I believe Hitler built good motorways, re*****ised the economy and made Germany feel good about itself, just a shame a few million people had to die really.

Comparing anything/anyone to Hitler is the ultimate sign of desperation in any discussion, and only adds credence to your slapdown from RA earlier on this page.

[ramAnag]

Comparing anything/anyone to Hitler is the ultimate sign of desperation in any discussion, and only adds credence to your slapdown from RA earlier on this page.

I disagree Andy...the comparison is totally valid. Back in the thirties the only thing Hitler had going for him was the ability to revive a flagging economy but at the cost of complete abdication of any moral responsibility. In that respect Trump is exactly the same.
I’m also not trying to ‘slap down’ anyone. Swale is my greatest, possibly only, ally on here as regards Brexit...I just don’t think it helps to see everyone who disagrees or recognises another side of things as the ‘enemy’. Logic and wit is what will win the argument. Swale, imo, has plenty of both but all too often resorts to the self defeating bludgeon.
Just my opinion as is the idea that Aaron Banks came across as a totally charmless, ego driven and dishonest chancer this morning on Andrew Marr. The last thing we need as an addition to the current political scene...but probably what we deserve.

[Andy_Faber]

I disagree Andy...the comparison is totally valid. Back in the thirties the only thing Hitler had going for him was the ability to revive a flagging economy but at the cost of complete abdication of any moral responsibility. In that respect Trump is exactly the same.
I’m also not trying to ‘slap down’ anyone. Swale is my greatest, possibly only, ally on here as regards Brexit...I just don’t think it helps to see everyone who disagrees or recognises another side of things as the ‘enemy’. Logic and wit is what will win the argument. Swale, imo, has plenty of both but all too often resorts to the self defeating bludgeon.
Just my opinion as is the idea that Aaron Banks came across as a totally charmless, ego driven and dishonest chancer this morning on Andrew Marr. The last thing we need as an addition to the current political scene...but probably what we deserve.

We'll have to agree to differ on the Hitler one, IMO its just too easy a hit used by people who, to quote you, are happy to 'resort to self defeating bludgeon'.

No disagreement on the Banks thing, regretably being charmless and ego driven is not currently a criminal offence.

[ramAnag]

We'll have to agree to differ on the Hitler one, IMO its just too easy a hit used by people who, to quote you, are happy to 'resort to self defeating bludgeon'.

No disagreement on the Banks thing, regretably being charmless and ego driven is not currently a criminal offence.

You’re right of course - about Banks - but the inability to provide a direct answer, the desire to ‘muddy the waters’ and go off at every possible tangent suggests to me...someone with something to hide. But then I suppose it would...I despise the chap.

[Trickytreesreds]

Banks, is a very unlikebale man, without doubt.
But he is the latest witch hunt than remainers are focusing on, in order to over turn Brexit.

It still escapes me, how Cameron got away with plugging Remain with £9 m of public money. It wasn't part of the debate budgets and as such, lets remain off the hook. However, after reading it again (i sent mine back to number 10 in disgust). I now believe it helped the Leave point of view. HE TOOK THE NATION FOR IDIOTS AND TRIED TO MANIPULATE IT.

I t also blew away most of the remain squealing points, of you" didn;t know what you was voting for"

We did and Cameron spelled it out.
It's all there and Leave still lost.

The environment secretary, Liz Truss, said: “The document makes clear why EU membership brings economic security, peace and stability. It also sets out that, if the UK voted to leave, the resulting economic shock would put pressure on the value of the pound, which would risk higher prices of some household goods.”

Time for some respect from certain parties.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ublicity-blitz

[ramAnag]

Banks, is a very unlikebale man, without doubt.
But he is the latest witch hunt than remainers are focusing on, in order to over turn Brexit.

It still escapes me, how Cameron got away with plugging Remain with £9 m of public money. It wasn't part of the debate budgets and as such, lets remain off the hook. However, after reading it again (i sent mine back to number 10 in disgust). I now believe it helped the Leave point of view. HE TOOK THE NATION FOR IDIOTS AND TRIED TO MANIPULATE IT.

I t also blew away most of the remain squealing points, of you" didn;t know what you was voting for"

We did and Cameron spelled it out.
It's all there and Leave still lost.

The environment secretary, Liz Truss, said: “The document makes clear why EU membership brings economic security, peace and stability. It also sets out that, if the UK voted to leave, the resulting economic shock would put pressure on the value of the pound, which would risk higher prices of some household goods.”

Time for some respect from certain parties.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ublicity-blitz

Fair enough Tricky, I remember being less than comfortable with dodgy Dave spending so much public money on the Remain campaign.
It wasn’t illegal though, it maybe should have been, but apparently it wasn’t.
Without pre-judging the, in your own words, ‘very unlikeable’ Aaron Banks, what he is accused of actually is illegal and therein lies the difference.
He isn’t the latest ‘witch hunt’ at all then...questions have been being asked for a long time and it is a question of legality.

[Andy_Faber]

Fair enough Tricky, I remember being less than comfortable with dodgy Dave spending so much public money on the Remain campaign.
It wasn’t illegal though, it maybe should have been, but apparently it wasn’t.
Without pre-judging the, in your own words, ‘very unlikeable’ Aaron Banks, what he is accused of actually is illegal and therein lies the difference.
He isn’t the latest ‘witch hunt’ at all then...questions have been being asked for a long time and it is a question of legality.

...although, in Banks' defence, he didn't unnecessarily call a nation-splitting referendum, which morally was a bigger crime than where a few mill came from, IMO

[MadAmster]

We did and Cameron spelled it out.
It's all there and Leave still lost.

It must be me as I think that leave didn't lose which is why Brexit is only 5 months away.............