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Thread: OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

  1. #3981
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    ....... and just to muddy the waters yet further..... it seems that Germany has been in a recession in the last 2 quarters of 2018. A continuance thereof would see France in the brown and smelly and completely stuff Italy which is also in recession and on the financial brink.

    Source https://www.businessinsider.nl/germa...onal=true&r=US

    This News might just be the trigger to Mayhem being able to give the EU an ultimatum as it seems they now really need that £39Bn divorce settlement. Let's see what Mayhem is made of now she has been given this opportunity.

  2. #3982
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadAmster View Post
    1. I hate the EU with a vengeance and anything that looks like upsetting the apple cart is OK by me, however.....
    2. A proper Brexit, complete with no freedom of movement, no Customs Union but with a good trade deal was possible.... but only if the government had got off its hind quarters and put together a credible stance/negotiating position in the first 6 months following the refeerendum. Instead they prevarificated and hummed and aared right up to the last moment and then agreed the current Mayhem proposal which does no more than take the UK out of the EU whilst keeping it in the EU........ if you get my drift.
    3. There are 3 options open as far as I can fathom, one of which really would cause riots, and that is to stay in the EU as is. The 2nd is the Mayhem deal which has the UK in and out at the same time but with no say in EU law making. The 3rd is no deal. #1 is not really an option which is a shame as my thoughts on banking, multinationals, stock markets and money markets would be better served by having them done through the EU. A single country going it alone on those measures would collapse quicker than a Russian spy who has just taken his cyanide pill. No deal is also ruinous which leaves the Mayhem deal as no more than the best of a bad bunch. What a mess and I point the finger not at the 52 or 48 or 63 or 67 or even the 30% but fairly and squarely at the Conservative and Unionist Party who have perfectly screwed up any chance of the UK getting the best it could through a lack of concerted action and effort which, IMO, they did on purpose so that leaving the EU whilst staying in it would be best for them and their paymasters whilst placating, they hope, the 52% who, according to the rules under which the referendum took place, "won".
    4. IMO it should not matter whether the PM is a Leaver or a Remainer, as long as that PM appointed a Leaver as Brexit Minister. Someone who would toil night and day do push for the very best deal for the UK and I am convinced the best deal is not what is currently on the table.
    5. It is my considered opinion that the UK could have taken down the EU by staying in and undermining the whole inefficient monolith from within. There are, IMO, enough member states now going against the Commission's wishes to be able to destroy it from within. Greece, Italy and Spain (the people of more than the politicians) don't want Northern Europe style taxes and tax gathering machines in place. The Eastern Bloc refuse to have African immigrants and there it is both government and populace against the immigration.
    6. Austria is the most recent country to back out of the EU Army project, more will follow IMO.

    The whole kit and caboodle is falling apart at the seams. People in most countries want less interference from Brussels. The Commission belives that MORE Europe is the answer. A totally ridiculous situation.
    So in your opinion, MA, Europe is burning and on the brink of collapsing anyway, at least as far as a "unification project" is concerned. A free trade area could be salvaged out of the ashes though, I imagine. This would take the EU back to its Common Market roots in the 60's, which would be a neat solution which would appeal to me as a voter.

    I get that the eventual impact of the differences at national level smashing the structure from within is possibly inevitable. You cannot hope to unify any economies with divergent attitudes towards tax (hence the Euro would not be acceptable in UK). Still less can you achieve it when the union stretches further east into economies and governments that that are further from western european than they are from third world. Hence attitudes against African immigration will never be adopted across the existing EUno matter what Brussels may pontificate.

    RA asks for a solution. At heart I still believe there isnt one, but if one could reinvent time, then a strong western european free trade zone between some 12-15 countries is what could work. Economies of more or less equal levels of activity and currency broadly stable against one another withing the free trade area would solve many of the brexiteer arguments against europe. Similar levels of economic activity in all members, hence similar tax regimes, hence similar wage regimes would stop free movement of labour dead in its tracks - if there is no economic edge to moving for work, people will not uproot themselves and leave their families for financial betterment. Similarly one can allow free movement of capital without necessarily changing much as yields would be the same throughout the unified zone.

    So a mechanism could exist that allows for free movement of labour and capital, but in practice very little incentive exists for it to be taken up. So "the poles wont steal our jobs" etc. that half the brexiteers bought off!! Free movement of capital and level playing field economic activity throughout the union would mean the centre does not have to redistribute the contributions, so it would cost less. Abandonment of full scale unification projects could reduce the cost still further and knock another brexiteer objection (mine in particular) on the head.

    So the EU has to split in half, full members and associate members / Norway, Switzerland style members. the associates have their own free trade zone, again a society of equals. The Associates can have a trade agreement with the full members but not one tht allows the economies to swamp one another with labour, capital or goods.

    Simples

    Except they should have done it 25 years ago before the "let any country in" philosophy developed itself.

    Ah well

    Its a solution, but not a solution to today's problem sadly
    .

  3. #3983
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post

    I’ve never seen the incident you refer to Andy and one wonders, if the media are so good at suppressing/magnifying issues as they see fit, how you have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pw7EwceF8A

    OK some time ago but there were some VERY nasty folk in that rabble and you can bet they were neither right wingers nor Brexiters. I also thing NF's reaction was a bit less rabble-rousing than AS's. This actually came up the other day on a very well-balanced BBC piece, questioning (presumably its own) level of eaction to the Anna Soubry incident

  4. #3984
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    You really need to get over your anti BBC obsession.
    Its not an obsession but thanks for reverting to Remainer mode and telling me what I should think and do. IMO the BBC is pretty sh*t hot at almost everything it does, but a few of its correspondents just can't help themselves in their distaste for some views/people. My issue with BBC is nothing to do with Brexit, its their obsession with diversity

  5. #3985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_Faber View Post
    Its not an obsession but thanks for reverting to Remainer mode and telling me what I should think and do. IMO the BBC is pretty sh*t hot at almost everything it does, but a few of its correspondents just can't help themselves in their distaste for some views/people. My issue with BBC is nothing to do with Brexit, its their obsession with diversity
    I apologise...it did sound a tad patronising. Wasn’t intended, don’t think it’s ‘Remainer’ mode...more likely learned behaviour from spending too much time on here.

    Tbf though, you have repeatedly criticised the BBC on the Brexit thread.

  6. #3986
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post

    Tbf though, you have repeatedly criticised the BBC on the Brexit thread.
    Criticised yes, but they excelled themselves last night by giving Owen Jones enough air time to expose what an obnoxious t*t he is, a man more likely to drive people right of centre than 100 Tommy Robinsons

  7. #3987
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    Parky wrote....

    Simples

    Except they should have done it 25 years ago before the "let any country in" philosophy developed itself.

    Ah well

    Its a solution, but not a solution to today's problem sadly


    ....... I have said many a time and oft that I would prefer a return to pre Maastricht (1991 to be precies, Maastricht came into force in '92 having been signed in '91).

  8. #3988
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    Just watching a FB video from Breaking Brexit News.

    It explains how much better off Switzerland is than us thanks to not being in the EU

    It explains that you don't need a trade deal to trade with other countries

    It explains all sorts of reasons why the EU is failing (only economic area in decline they say)

    It is a video well worth watching

  9. #3989
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    How do you access FB videos, do you have to join the vile site?

  10. #3990
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadAmster View Post
    Just watching a FB video from Breaking Brexit News.

    It explains how much better off Switzerland is than us thanks to not being in the EU

    It explains that you don't need a trade deal to trade with other countries

    It explains all sorts of reasons why the EU is failing (only economic area in decline they say)

    It is a video well worth watching

    Well its is if you only believe crap that fits with your point of view, but then you'd never learn anything! Still I guess lots of Germans believed what Hitler told them and look where how that ended!

    The Eu isn't perfect, no institution or organisation run by human beings is, but if people really can't see that smaller countries acting in partnership economically is the only sure way to survive then I guess something is blinding them to the obvious!

    We have to some extent followed Switzerland by washing dirty money from various dodgy sources around the world and there are certain other distinct factors about how the Swiss operate which would definitely not go down well with many of the libertarian right wing Brexiteers.

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