OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Good to hear mac. I honestly think the NHS has its failings but is brilliant when such emergency treatment is required and I genuinely hope everything works out for you.
To add another perspective...someone very, very close to me became similarly ill about eigh**** months ago, only in the USA.
They received superb treatment and the prognosis is good...the bill however has already topped $2,000,000 and there is more treatment to come.
Fortunately the person concerned had the required insurance. God help those who don’t and that’s not a road I’d like to see us go down in the UK.

We never will.
Any party that tried to do that, would be finished. That's why I don't believe a word of Corbyns anti semitic smoke screen.
But it must be managed better, to keep it on the straight and narrow.
It must be removed from politics for it's own good.
The government shouldn't have sole ownership of what goes on.
It should be run by a coalition of selected MP's of all parties and to an agreed budget.
It must work within that budget and justify its working.

It is not a political football! Every election we go through this.

[Andy_Faber]

Amazingly naive, rA? Tell me more....

I look at Indian and other Asian immigrant groups, West African groups etc and I see an exceptional degree of family loyalty and commitment to look after one another, generation by generation. Its good to see. The basic white English populace seem to have somewhat cynically divorced themselves from any responsibility for their family or extended family, preferring instead to maximise earnings and leave their "duty" to children or the elderly in the hands of others.

I'd have to disagree with that, based on pretty direct personal involvement/experience, and which I've touched on before. My observation, based on people I shared my breakfast table with this morning, its that direct, is that in some of those immigrant groups (you missed one in particular though) the burden falls to a massive extent on the female family members, male members much too often being totally absent, a peripheral figure or present and unwilling to help. The latter two remind me of my grandad's generation when the husbands 'went down the pub'. The young lads I know aren't blind to this and tell me that the feeling in their generation is that 'it has to stop' and the burden within relationships should be more evenly spread, I'll paraphrase 'more like you and Mrs F do it'. That's not me blowing my own trumpet, just offering a different perspective on a complex issue

[mistaram]

[QUOTE=macstheman;39371976]Whatever the problems with the NHS I only have the highest praise. Nearly four years ago a routine blood test revealed a problem. My GP rang me at home to say he was referring me urgently to the Derby Royal, this was at 8.30am on the Friday, twenty minutes later he rang me back to say I was to be admitted immediately for further tests and told me to go straight to the ward!! Within an hour of arriving at the hospital I had had further blood tests and a thorough examination. I was kept in over the weekend and had yet more blood tests.
To cut a long story short between late October and mid December I had had MRI scans, CT scans, X-ray's and several biopsies taken, I had surgery on the 16th December. I then had 7 weeks of intensive RT on a number of tumours which were unoperable. At all times I received wonderful care from all the staff despite them being continually busy. Whilst the experience was not a pleasant one it certainly presented the health service as a modern efficient
and caring organisation and certainly one I can only praise. I continue to receive ongoing treatment and that praise continues to grow.[/QUO

Mac hope everything finishes in a positive way for you Both yours and Trickys treatment shows what a precious commodity our NHS is

[macstheman]

Thanks everyone, your thoughts are appreciated.
As you say rA, the cost of modern treatment is frightening. Modern medicine offers great opportunities to help the sick but is, inherently, mind bogglingly expensive. Quite what my treatment alone has cost makes ones eyes water.
I agree with Tricky that threats to the NHS should be permanently removed and his idea of cross party management is well worth pursuing.
Perhaps we ought to get the NHS to mend DCFC!! God, that would cost a pretty penny.

[ramAnag]

We never will.
Any party that tried to do that, would be finished. That's why I don't believe a word of Corbyns anti semitic smoke screen.
But it must be managed better, to keep it on the straight and narrow.
It must be removed from politics for it's own good.
The government shouldn't have sole ownership of what goes on.
It should be run by a coalition of selected MP's of all parties and to an agreed budget.
It must work within that budget and justify its working.

It is not a political football! Every election we go through this.

Tricky...you say ‘any party that tried to do that, would be finished’...but that’s the point. Any party that openly tried to do that as part of their manifesto would indeed be ‘finished’.

It’s what those two totally untrustworthy figures - Johnson and Trump - are getting up to in secret and off the record that concerns me.

Agree about the coalition of all party selected MP’s as an alternative.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Its an intriguing concept, one nation in effect owning the health service of another, which is riddled with wide ranging issues beyond simply the profit motives of that ownership. the level of control that could then be exercised by one over the other would be immense.

However, consider this, and don't shoot the mailman here - what are the essentials of a good NHS. Facilities & Equipment, staff and medicines I reckon, in no particular order.

First off, where do the medicines come from? Almost all "big pharma" is either American or (for off patent clones) Indian or Chinese. the big ones: Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer, Merck, Gilead are American; Roche and Novartis are Swiss; Sanofi is French, Bayer is German. GSK and Astra Zeneca are based in the UK, but are predominantly multinational.

Next, what about the medical equipment - 9 of the top 15 suppliers are American - GE, ostensibly English, is a subsidiary of an American company. The biggest, Medtronic, arguably Irish, is essentially American. The other big ones are European.

Staff? Well, I don't know how true it is, but I've often heard it said that the NHS would fall apart if it were not for imported / foreign labour.

There is a persuasive argument that our healthcare is already out of our hands: sure, its owned by "us" as a sort of nationalised industry, but all we really control are the buildings! Oh yes, and we are responsible for all those ridiculous layers of middle management that everyone villifies

Discuss, he says, polemically

[Trickytreesreds]

Tricky...you say ‘any party that tried to do that, would be finished’...but that’s the point. Any party that openly tried to do that as part of their manifesto would indeed be ‘finished’.

It’s what those two totally untrustworthy figures - Johnson and Trump - are getting up to in secret and off the record that concerns me.

Agree about the coalition of all party selected MP’s as an alternative.

Well all I can say to that is. If Johnson is up to no good with the NHS, then the Tory party would be finished.
It's that simple.

Please remember here though, no matter what Corbyn says, Labour have privatised the NHS more than anyone.
So when we talk about trust, can you really trust anyone?

In another way of looking at it. You and Mr said recently that the NHS was the best it had ever been under Blair/Brown?

In effect, that was when it was privatised the most. So is it really all bad to bring some of it into the private sector?

[Manofpride]

Problems will always arise in the NHS, a fantastic service but never enough money to fund it. Also the population increase doesn't help, 12,000,000 extra since 1970. With that kind of increase we need a lot more money in the pot.
Life expectancy is also up, more people and increased costs are adding to pressures on the NHS, people are also living longer.
Boris has promised £1.8 million boost for the NHS and an extra 50,000 NHS nurses by 2025. With that kind of cash investment and 50,0000 more nurses do you honestly think that will improve the NHS? Increasing wages, medical equipment and supplies all eat into it. The NHS is a great service but it will always have it's problems no matter who governs the Country.

[mistaram]

The Department Of Health and social Care accounts for 2018 show the commission spent 13.7 billion in private sector services or 11.3 of their budget . But they say if they included GPs , pharmacy, optical, and dental serviceable outsourced to private companies that would take it up to 25%
The Department says this is due to the 2012 Health and Social care Act

[mistaram]

Problems will always arise in the NHS, a fantastic service but never enough money to fund it. Also the population increase doesn't help, 12,000,000 extra since 1970. With that kind of increase we need a lot more money in the pot.
Life expectancy is also up, more people and increased costs are adding to pressures on the NHS, people are also living longer.
Boris has promised £1.8 million boost for the NHS and an extra 50,000 NHS nurses by 2025. With that kind of cash investment and 50,0000 more nurses do you honestly think that will improve the NHS? Increasing wages, medical equipment and supplies all eat into it. The NHS is a great service but it will always have it's problems no matter who governs the Country.

MoP surely your not naive enough to believe the 50,000 more nurses story Its already been proven to be another of his lies