OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

Interesting to see Johnson and his ERG cronies jump up and start attacking Sunak, just as it seems he may have reached an agreement with the Eu over the NI protocol. Shameless opportunism by Johnson who basically lied to the DUP, but of course the sticking point here isn't that the DUp disagree with the protocol, they knew after all what the Brexit they wanted and supported May to achieve would mean, just that they ahve no intention of forming a government in NI with a Nationalist First minister!

One step closer to a united Ireland as public support drains away from the Prods!!

[Andy_Faber]

Just a slight update on travel restrictions based on a family member (UK passport) and her partner (Syrian passport) over the period since mid December, they've done (all by air) Spain/Morocco/Spain/UK/Spain/UK/Germany/Spain/UK/Portugal and haven't encountered a single holdup due to being non-EU and have been told twice at the Spanish border that they should ignore any residency time restrictions as the local 'town hall' (Spain is very locally governed) has said they don't want to be turning away anyone who contributes to the local economy! (or scarpering crims I guess). Just an anecdote, the other being that border force controls are tightest in UK and Germany, loosest in Morocco (I'd agree)

Not a benefit of Brexit but less of a burden than some soothsayers predicted.

[swaledale]

When something is the same or only slightly more onerous after Brexit it as you rightly say not a benefit of Brexit.

The other side of that story, as confirmed by Eurostar is that they can only run trains at 75% capacity as the requirement to check and stamp passports takes too long. So whereas one was able to hop on Eurostar and go effortlessly to Paris etc. , one now faces higher ticket charges due to the reduced capacity and it takes longer to board due to passport checks.

[Andy_Faber]

When something is the same or only slightly more onerous after Brexit it as you rightly say not a benefit of Brexit.

The other side of that story, as confirmed by Eurostar is that they can only run trains at 75% capacity as the requirement to check and stamp passports takes too long. So whereas one was able to hop on Eurostar and go effortlessly to Paris etc. , one now faces higher ticket charges due to the reduced capacity and it takes longer to board due to passport checks.

Yes there’s two sides to every coin, it seems that air travel is still the way to go.

[ramAnag]

Yes there’s two sides to every coin, it seems that air travel is still the way to go.

Isn’t the point that there didn’t need to be two sides to this particular coin and that there is only any sort of ‘down’ side regarding travel and European ‘residency’ because of Brexit?

[Andy_Faber]

Isn’t the point that there didn’t need to be two sides to this particular coin and that there is only any sort of ‘down’ side regarding travel and European ‘residency’ because of Brexit?

Not quite IMO, I’m suggesting that there appears to be so little time or cost negative in the anecdote I use that the Brexit element is lost in the mix compared to worldwide inflation, the Ukraine war, anti terror security and the gradual unravelling of the low cost airline model

[ramAnag]

Not quite IMO, I’m suggesting that there appears to be so little time or cost negative in the anecdote I use that the Brexit element is lost in the mix compared to worldwide inflation, the Ukraine war, anti terror security and the gradual unravelling of the low cost airline model

I take your point, although Swale’s example related to rail travel and mine, from last autumn, to Spanish (French run actually) ferries. Brexit maybe is ‘lost in the mix’ you describe however, unlike all the others, it is self inflicted which is what I find so infuriating.

[Andy_Faber]

I take your point, although Swale’s example related to rail travel and mine, from last autumn, to Spanish (French run actually) ferries. Brexit maybe is ‘lost in the mix’ you describe however, unlike all the others, it is self inflicted which is what I find so infuriating.

I’m just coming at it from a different angle to you. You describe it as an act of self harm, which at present it looks like it is, but we’re six years down the line and the majority have had so much other stuff to deal and the and direct Brexit impact is so esoteric that Brexit barely gets a mention and your continued infuriation isn’t now common (or at least not voiced). Note I say the majority - no argument that some trades/ professions and some areas ie Ireland would definitely be able to pinpoint the impact.

[ramAnag]

I’m just coming at it from a different angle to you. You describe it as an act of self harm, which at present it looks like it is, but we’re six years down the line and the majority have had so much other stuff to deal and the and direct Brexit impact is so esoteric that Brexit barely gets a mention and your continued infuriation isn’t now common (or at least not voiced). Note I say the majority - no argument that some trades/ professions and some areas ie Ireland would definitely be able to pinpoint the impact.

Appreciate the new found civility...long may it last.

Increased travel restrictions/complications apart though...I think it is now generally accepted that Brexit has been responsible for reducing EU/UK trade by at least 4% compared with remaining in the EU.

It also appears true that the UK has underperformed, compared with its EU counterparts, since Covid and I’m not sure what else you’d put this down to as the other contributors - global recession, pandemic, Putin - are universally applicable to our European neighbours.

Leaving aside the ‘Boris’ bus’ thing...Johnson also argued there would be ‘no non tariff barriers to trade’ and that Brexit would ‘stimulate business with our European friends’. Any evidence of that?

For the above reasons, and others, I believe Brexit regularly ‘gets a mention’ and infuriation is very common...it’s just that the other three factors have offered a significant degree of ‘camouflage’ for which hard core Brexiteers must be peculiarly grateful.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Whereas the warmongers can use Brexit as a convenient camouflage, or the COVID conspiracy theorists can? Only someone with extreme naivety or a political agenda to push would specifically lay the blame for our troubles at the door of Brexit. I don't think you are naive.

Incidentally you cite UK's post Brexit relative economic underperformance compared to other EU members (of 4%) as a negative. How would you interpret this if I were to tell you that UK underperformed its EU peer group by an average of 5.73% in the 5 years prior to Brexit?