OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

It’s not over till...trying to think of a relevant fat lady...anyway...I suspect it’s not all over yet Andy.
That’s not the point though...the only reason for trotting out those figures (again) is that Brexiteers like Tricky keep claiming that the majority or, in his exact words, ‘half the electorate’ voted their way...that his view represents the ‘Will of the people’ and that is simply untrue and not even close to being factually correct.

Oh behave Ramanag.
Do tell me, what the turn out was for that referendum and its relation to any other vote we have had in this country?
By your definition, no government should ever be allowed to take power, because not everyone voted it in.
"Counting Officers have verified that a total of 33,568,184 ballot papers will be included in the count for the referendum. Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent,"

We vote/we don't vote. It's how we do things.

I can't help it, if you are so full of EU bull, that you keep insisting on another re run to get what what you want.
What if you did win by the same margin?
Would you call that one wrong as well and remand another vote?
No of course you wouldn't. I can't help it, if your safe Liberal countryside life shields you from the EU debris.
Good luck to you. I'm on the side of 17 year olds, I have interviewed, struggling to get a job because a firm would rather hire a 25 year old east european. Rather than pay for training costs. You enjoy your business class flights around europe, there's a good lad.

[Andy_Faber]

I'm on the side of 17 year olds, I have interviewed, struggling to get a job because a firm would rather hire a 25 year old east european.

Cutting away all the spite from that post, a job in itself, this is a good point that I see a lot - the company I work for have NO interest in investing in training of the indigenous UK workforce when they can hire cheaper from EU countries where the equiv labour is cheaper. I'm not actually sure why that's not racial discrimination, and I'm not talking about strawberry pickers I'm talking about engineers etc

PS Tricky I'm flying business class to Europe on saturday, is that OK or does it make my opinion invalid?

[ramAnag]

Oh behave Ramanag.
Do tell me, what the turn out was for that referendum and its relation to any other vote we have had in this country?
By your definition, no government should ever be allowed to take power, because not everyone voted it in.
"Counting Officers have verified that a total of 33,568,184 ballot papers will be included in the count for the referendum. Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent,"

We vote/we don't vote. It's how we do things.

I can't help it, if you are so full of EU bull, that you keep insisting on another re run to get what what you want.
What if you did win by the same margin?
Would you call that one wrong as well and remand another vote?
No of course you wouldn't. I can't help it, if your safe Liberal countryside life shields you from the EU debris.
Good luck to you. I'm on the side of 17 year olds, I have interviewed, struggling to get a job because a firm would rather hire a 25 year old east european. Rather than pay for training costs. You enjoy your business class flights around europe, there's a good lad.

So, as ever...wrong, wrong and wrong again...but don’t let the facts get in the way of your preconceptions.

1) Multi choice General Elections and single issue Referenda are entirely different.
2) I’ve never asked for a re-run. What’s the point of repeating a flawed formula? Take on board the message - the advisory element - and let Parliament decide with a free vote is what I’ve consistently advocated should happen.
3) I’ve chosen to live in a rural location after spending my career working in a far from safe urban environment. I actually seem to be surrounded by Brexiteers here but wtf has where I live got to do with you anyway?
4) I suspect I’ve worked with and helped a damned sight more ****agers and school leavers than you...wow you’ve interviewed a few...big deal!
5) The nearest I’ve been to a business class flight around Europe is ‘Priority Boarding’ with Ryanair...I’m off there tomorrow by coincidence...driving via the Tunnel.

Come back when you show even the slightest ability to grasp the simplest of facts Tricky.

[Trickytreesreds]

Cutting away all the spite from that post, a job in itself, this is a good point that I see a lot - the company I work for have NO interest in investing in training of the indigenous UK workforce when they can hire cheaper from EU countries where the equiv labour is cheaper. I'm not actually sure why that's not racial discrimination, and I'm not talking about strawberry pickers I'm talking about engineers etc

PS Tricky I'm flying business class to Europe on saturday, is that OK or does it make my opinion invalid?

The point was AF, Ramanag, obviously has a cushy well earned life. I take my hat off to him. He lives in a nice place and is completely devoid shielded from the downsides of EU membership.
If it effected him as directly as it does the kids I come across. He may think a little differently. Can't get a flat or afford one. Can't get a job because no one will train them.
The inner cities are becoming an underclass of suppressed wages and conditions. That is the main reason folks wanted out. How worse off can they be?

Cameron used this vote to gain political points. Being the total berk he is, he had no understanding of how deep rooted the discontent was/is in this country,
Had Europe showed him some respect, he may have avoided it.
They didn't, they spanked his arse like a spoiled monkey for contesting the "plan".
The cry went out for "more union"

What we left with?
A massive rise in right leanings across Europe. East Europe is a powder keg and they aren't being intimidated.
The Italians have woken up, to the un employment/debt nightmare and voted accordingly. Even Germany has a shift in power. It isn't the utopia they think it is.

Ramanag, says we should trust parliament to make the right decision for us. Really? Why would any sane person do that? From *** scandals, to tax payers decorating their properties no bloody way.

Untouchables-

http://www.eutruth.org.uk/traitors.html

[Andy_Faber]

The point was AF, Ramanag, obviously has a cushy well earned life. I take my hat off to him. He lives in a nice place and is completely devoid shielded from the downsides of EU membership.
If it effected him as directly as it does the kids I come across. He may think a little differently. Can't get a flat or afford one. Can't get a job because no one will train them.
The inner cities are becoming an underclass of suppressed wages and conditions. That is the main reason folks wanted out. How worse off can they be?

Cameron used this vote to gain political points. Being the total berk he is, he had no understanding of how deep rooted the discontent was/is in this country,
Had Europe showed him some respect, he may have avoided it.
They didn't, they spanked his arse like a spoiled monkey for contesting the "plan".
The cry went out for "more union"

What we left with?
A massive rise in right leanings across Europe. East Europe is a powder keg and they aren't being intimidated.
The Italians have woken up, to the un employment/debt nightmare and voted accordingly. Even Germany has a shift in power. It isn't the utopia they think it is.

Ramanag, says we should trust parliament to make the right decision for us. Really? Why would any sane person do that? From *** scandals, to tax payers decorating their properties no bloody way.

Untouchables-

http://www.eutruth.org.uk/traitors.html

If you refrained from your 'personals' (such as on RA) your views might be a bit more respected, what little he's given away suggests he has had enough **** on his shirtsleeves to deserve a bit of respite, he's certainly been at the sharp end more than me.

There's validity in a lot of what you say elsewhere in that, although dumping all of that 17-year-old's woes at the door of EU is taking it too far, there is still a lot of 'survival of the fittest/smartest' going on, and I'll give a mention to parental support here, the support of an encouraging/mentoring/switched on parent makes a big difference to prospects, I know the government offer 'help and advice' but compared to good parents that offering stands no chance

Cameron being a berk I'll go with.

[Trickytreesreds]

Last one.
We see all the talk about the vote being wrong and Parliament should decide what's good for us. Have folks actually considered the shenanigans that led us to the current plight?
I wouldn't trust any of them and to allow the EU even more control would be insane, IMO.

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/euillegally.html

[ramAnag]

If you refrained from your 'personals' (such as on RA) your views might be a bit more respected, what little he's given away suggests he has had enough **** on his shirtsleeves to deserve a bit of respite, he's certainly been at the sharp end more than me.

There's validity in a lot of what you say elsewhere in that, although dumping all of that 17-year-old's woes at the door of EU is taking it too far, there is still a lot of 'survival of the fittest/smartest' going on, and I'll give a mention to parental support here, the support of an encouraging/mentoring/switched on parent makes a big difference to prospects, I know the government offer 'help and advice' but compared to good parents that offering stands no chance

Cameron being a berk I'll go with.

You are 100% right about the value of good and supportive parenting Andy. Unfortunately both good and bad parenting tend to be self perpetuating. I know there are some notable exceptions but I’ve been around for long enough to recognise that children who have experienced bad parenting often (not always) become bad parents in the same way as people who have been abused often - by no means necessarily - become abusers.
Role models are so important and powerful to young people which is one reason why it is now so sad that male primary school teachers have become such a relative rarity.

Tricky...I don’t have much more faith in politicians than you. Think they tend largely to be an ambitious bunch of narcissists who have achieved far too little in the real world.
My point is, we live in a system of Parliamentary Democracy. Parliament decides everything from issues about the NHS and Education Policy to Transport Infrastructure, the Armed Forces, Housing and Taxation.
Then we get to the most complicated decision that has been made for years and suddenly we hand it over to a Joe Public knee jerk reaction based on who could tell the best lies and, apparently, break the rules most effectively.
It’s a nonsense...the public have not been empowered to vote on much simpler issues - except via a General Election - so why suddenly hand this one over...it’s like putting crucial open heart surgery in the hands of a plumber.

[ramAnag]

Can’t help feeling that David Davis will be the first of the ‘rats’ to desert the sinking ship that is ‘HMS Brexit’ before much longer.
This weeks observations from Holland about the ‘rules of origin’ factor represents a very nasty tip of the proverbial iceberg that UK businesses will, along with all the other continuing uncertainty, be unable to deal with.
Brexit? It ain’t gonna happen chaps...soon be simply a question of how we wriggle out of it with any semblance of dignity intact.
Stupid idea rapidly becoming exposed for exactly that...move on and change from within once our reputation has been rebuilt.

[Andy_Faber]

Can’t help feeling that David Davis will be the first of the ‘rats’ to desert the sinking ship that is ‘HMS Brexit’ before much longer.
This weeks observations from Holland about the ‘rules of origin’ factor represents a very nasty tip of the proverbial iceberg that UK businesses will, along with all the other continuing uncertainty, be unable to deal with.
Brexit? It ain’t gonna happen chaps...soon be simply a question of how we wriggle out of it with any semblance of dignity intact.
Stupid idea rapidly becoming exposed for exactly that...move on and change from within once our reputation has been rebuilt.

The rules of origin one is tricky, I think I mentioned that one way back, it was the subject of discussion at a seminar I went to amongst normal people (ie not politicians). I think you'll find it's a little bit of a scare story, there' a mass of ifs, buts and maybes in there and you need to take heed of the detail not the press IMO.

[MadAmster]

For those interested, here are the WTO Rules of Origin.....

https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e...roi_info_e.htm