OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Ram59]

With respect Ram, you’re missing my point. I hope the optimism of your final paragraph is justified but my point was...even with all the different interests and nationalities involved in the EU, they still do a better job of providing a united front than our inept and duplicitous representatives.

Likewise, with respect Anag, Brexit is THE major talking point for our politicians and press. It isn't so important throughout the EU, yet. We'll see what happens when they have to vote on the acceptance of any agreement that is thrown together. Then I expect the arguments to start. The right wing press are already printing snippets of dissenting eu politicians and business people wishing a more sympathetic approach to negotiations.

[ramAnag]

So do you really believe that May, Hammond and Rudd are ‘singing from the same hymn sheet’, as far as Brexit is concerned, as Johnson, Gove, Davies and Fox? They’re not even singing in the same parish imo.

[Ram59]

So do you really believe that May, Hammond and Rudd are ‘singing from the same hymn sheet’, as far as Brexit is concerned, as Johnson, Gove, Davies and Fox? They’re not even singing in the same parish imo.

No, I've never claimed that they are. As you have said, Brexit is not a defined standard, different people will accept different levels of Brexit. You are the one claiming that the whole of the EU are singing from the same hymn sheet. All I'm saying is wait and see. Maybe the district of Wallonia in Belgium will scupper any agreement, like they held up the trade agreement with Canada.

[MadAmster]

Take your point completely about negotiations MA, but can you honestly expect the likes of May and Hammond, on the one hand, to agree with the likes of Johnson and Gove on the other? That’s without taking into account the major divisions within the rest of the governing Party...the Soubry v Rees Mogg/IBS sections for example.
Remember how this all started? Cameron trying to bring his own Party to order and quell the extremists on the Right...to quote someone or other...‘nothing has changed...nothing has changed!’
Despite representing twenty seven/eight nations the EU appears to speak with one voice, something neither our country nor even our Government can manage.

At first sight no but, according to press reports ( ), the cabinet has agreed. We shall see

[ramAnag]

C’mon guys, let’s not lose sight of the facts and what’s been said here.
Ram59...I haven’t said ‘the whole of the EU are singing from the same hymn sheet’, I said they’re doing a better job of ‘speaking with one voice/providing a united front’ than our single disunited Government.
Your points about Brexit not being a ‘defined standard’ and ‘different people accepting different levels of Brexit’ is though, imo, an example of you absolutely hitting the nail on the head.
You are so right...twenty months on we still don’t know what type (‘defined standard’) or ‘level of Brexit’ we are dealing with or aiming for, so how could the referendum of June 2016 have any credibility and doesn’t it just show that, having got ourselves into the current mess, there has to be some sort of free vote once the consequences are actually known?

MA, if you believe press reports of the Cabinet being ‘agreed’ you’ve been away from the UK for too long.
There are at least four members of that Cabinet - Gove, Leadsom, Johnson and Fox - who all covet the role of PM. That doesn’t take into account the Rees Mogg supporters. May, Hammond and Rudd have more in common with moderate Labour than the right wing of their own party and the post referendum behaviour of Gove and Johnson would have put Machiavelli to shame. They are anything but ‘agreed’ or ‘united’ and as such, as they prove on an almost daily basis, are unfit to lead the country in these negotiations.

[Ram59]

Whilst brexit is not a defined standard, couldn't the same be said of future eu membership? Who knows where the EU will end up?

[Trickytreesreds]

C’mon guys, let’s not lose sight of the facts and what’s been said here.
Ram59...I haven’t said ‘the whole of the EU are singing from the same hymn sheet’, I said they’re doing a better job of ‘speaking with one voice/providing a united front’ than our single disunited Government.
Your points about Brexit not being a ‘defined standard’ and ‘different people accepting different levels of Brexit’ is though, imo, an example of you absolutely hitting the nail on the head.
You are so right...twenty months on we still don’t know what type (‘defined standard’) or ‘level of Brexit’ we are dealing with or aiming for, so how could the referendum of June 2016 have any credibility and doesn’t it just show that, having got ourselves into the current mess, there has to be some sort of free vote once the consequences are actually known?

MA, if you believe press reports of the Cabinet being ‘agreed’ you’ve been away from the UK for too long.
There are at least four members of that Cabinet - Gove, Leadsom, Johnson and Fox - who all covet the role of PM. That doesn’t take into account the Rees Mogg supporters. May, Hammond and Rudd have more in common with moderate Labour than the right wing of their own party and the post referendum behaviour of Gove and Johnson would have put Machiavelli to shame. They are anything but ‘agreed’ or ‘united’ and as such, as they prove on an almost daily basis, are unfit to lead the country in these negotiations.

Well put Ramanag, but flawed.

Your stance on no one agrees on what type of Brexit is on offer(be it Tory or Labour). Is irrelevant when you factor in the EU conditions.
I hear the Sourbrys/Abbotts of the world and the Sturgeons, keep talking about access to the customs union as a priority.
Yet the EU has made its stance perfectly clear. You want access to the customs union, then you'll-
1. pay up
2. accept free movement
3. accept European law
4. Have no say in where we go from here.

Perfectly clear to me, it's OUT MEANS OUT THEN.

[AdiSalisbury]

Whilst brexit is not a defined standard, couldn't the same be said of future eu membership? Who knows where the EU will end up?

This, is what is constantly neglected by our biased media (disappointingly, I include the bbc as biased) and a major defining factor in many leave votes.

[ramAnag]

Whilst brexit is not a defined standard, couldn't the same be said of future eu membership? Who knows where the EU will end up?

I think that too is a very fair point. I’ve never disputed that the EU has its faults but what was wrong with remaining and trying to bring about change? We are, or were, a big player in the EU...one of the big three...so why not? It has to make more sense than the disabling political and economic uncertainty that has gone on since the referendum.

Tricky, anyone who likens Soubry’s views to those of Abbot, is not really in a position to describe my opinions as ‘flawed’. They are as far apart as the PM and her Foreign Secretary.

[Trickytreesreds]

I think that too is a very fair point. I’ve never disputed that the EU has its faults but what was wrong with remaining and trying to bring about change? We are, or were, a big player in the EU...one of the big three...so why not? It has to make more sense than the disabling political and economic uncertainty that has gone on since the referendum.

Tricky, anyone who likens Soubry’s views to those of Abbot, is not really in a position to describe my opinions as ‘flawed’. They are as far apart as the PM and her Foreign Secretary.

Ramanag, with respect. I labelled Sourbry and Abbott as someone who are pro remainers/want to stay in the EU/ free movement/ customs union. One is just a selfish idiot, the other is an anti white racist with the intelligence of a baboon.

You didn't answer what I saying. We can scream for a good deal and demand to know which way we are going to tumble, until we are blue in the face.
The facts are, the EU openly says, no deal with the customs union unless you accept Fees/free movement/laws/ no say in policy.
As far as I'm concerned, no deal is better than a bad deal. The whinger's seem happy to get a good bum raping, if we have to leave.

Don't play their game. There is enough rumblings now coming out of Europe, as to punish the UK will hurt them badly.
Rotterdam is already hiring extra personnel to deal with it. WHY?
Because British trade for the rest of the world can go through Rotterdam first, before being shipped around the world. This distorts and clouds the figures of EU trade as it proportioned to the EU first. (Not a lot of people know that). ;-)

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

Hold your nerves, the deficit is greatly stacked against the EU.
THIS LASS TALKS SENSE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sZUnXyfogw