OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

The past few threads have raised a couple of interesting ironies. It is particularly ironic that an institution such as the EU, one of whose objectives was to promote harmony in Europe and prevent the return of nationalism / national socialism has set in motion policies which are in fact promoting the return of that very phenomenon. The free movement of labour has given the extreme right a new set of targets ulon whom to focus blame for the plight of the domestic JAMs: predominantly Eastern Europen. The EU open door policies on Middle Eastern "refugees" is doing the same thing. The institution grounded in the concept of "never againon my watch" seems to be creating the perfect conditions and environment for "ywt again".

The second irony is of course that this thread is degenerating into personal abuse and intolerance of opinion on both sides and thus becoming fractious and warlike at the expense of coherent debate. The EU promoting disharmony in a microcosm! You bunch of tossers (more irony)

Mm so the EU is responsible for the Arab Spring, Syrian civil war, ISIS, 2008 financial crash, banks criminal activity, peoples tendency to live life on credit, the BHS collapse, the demise of the steel industry, technological advances and a whole host of other socio economic and geopolitical factors that have impacted on peoples lives?

I'm surprised you haven't blamed Derby's record low pts total in the premier league down to the EU players we had!

The fact that you put refugees in parenthesis rather than "JAMS" is rather telling.

The far right will always use times of economic turmoil to find scapegoats and provide simple answers for people to grasp on to history shows us that.

[DerbyCountyMad]

1,452 replies to this Brexit thread. Wow I had to do a double retake. I wonder how many replies there would have been if thread had been "The futures bright the future is remain". I think about 20 as the Brexits would have taken defeat on the chin.

[ramAnag]

1,452 replies to this Brexit thread. Wow I had to do a double retake. I wonder how many replies there would have been if thread had been "The futures bright the future is remain". I think about 20 as the Brexits would have taken defeat on the chin.

Oh really? You mean like Farage did when the High Court decision didn't go the way he wanted or like Trump suggested when he said, pre-election...'I'll accept the result...if I win!'.
The reason there have been so many replies is because this is a decision which will impact upon us all for many, many years to come and if you care to read back you'll find that the thread was started by a 'Brexiteer' and has been far from monopolised by 'Remainers'.

[swaledale]

1,452 replies to this Brexit thread. Wow I had to do a double retake. I wonder how many replies there would have been if thread had been "The futures bright the future is remain". I think about 20 as the Brexits would have taken defeat on the chin.

Do you often have pointless musings?

[southernram22]

i see both ramanag and swles views i see lots of rhetoric over a decision that the people of the uk took in an open democratic vote and the decision was to leave do both swale and ramanag except democracy and see mine and others views . i do see the lack of faith in farage johnson and others like i saw the lies of cameron osborne etc. but if this country is to move forwards we must now stop sniping and accept like grown ups the if we lose we cannot keep opening legal loophole till we get our own way. can either of you tell me the outcome of the decision to overturn would be civil unrest civil diosobiedience protests in streetoh i forgot one side has already resorted to this .

[ramAnag]

i see both ramanag and swles views i see lots of rhetoric over a decision that the people of the uk took in an open democratic vote and the decision was to leave do both swale and ramanag except democracy and see mine and others views . i do see the lack of faith in farage johnson and others like i saw the lies of cameron osborne etc. but if this country is to move forwards we must now stop sniping and accept like grown ups the if we lose we cannot keep opening legal loophole till we get our own way. can either of you tell me the outcome of the decision to overturn would be civil unrest civil diosobiedience protests in streetoh i forgot one side has already resorted to this .

Not sure I understand that southern. Are you suggesting that the 'Remainers' have already resorted to civil unrest/disobedience? I certainly haven't seen any evidence. Lots of argument and debate...yes. Beyond that...only Farage and company have threatened civil unrest, on the back of the High Court decision. The points remain...people still really don't know exactly what Brexit actually means...both campaigns were based on a pack of lies, none bigger than the £350m NHS one and the only people to have suffered threats - to themselves and their families - are 'Remain' campaigners. We are, IMO, in danger of making a terrible mistake and really shouldn't compound that first mistake by seeing the application of legality, common sense and reason as an attack on some strange notion of 'democracy'

[swaledale]

A decision that 37% of the people of the Uk voted for! Not THE people voted for, those in favour of Brexit talk a lot about the will of the people which is not the same as those who voted! I doubt we would see civil unrest either way, but certainly little from those who voted leave, despite Fargae's bluster.

I have no issue with the fact that small majority voted to leave the EU, IMO and looking at the facts an unwise vote, but there we have it, the discussion now though is about the form of Brexit - its not about legal loop holes, its about proepr constitutional scrutiny of the deal by the democratically elected parliament - neither the referendum, nor any Brexit supporter set out the terms on which we leave and that is crucial to this country's economic future.

It will any case take millions of pounds and many years to completely untangle ourselves and for those who think ephimeral notions of an indepenent UK are worth the price...well it will be those people who will be paying it!

[Trickytreesreds]

Lets make one thing clear here. It doesn't have to cost millions of pounds or take decades to sort the divorce.

Once article 50 is triggered, the EU has 2 years MAXIMUM to negotiate any terms.
NO TERMS HAVE TO BE AGREED IN THAT TIME TO STOP IT.

If no terms are reached, then we walk away no matter what. That is LEGAL AND BINDING.

If anyone believes that the likes of BMW/AUDI/VW/CITROEN/RENAULT/FIAT are going to sit on their hands and let the EU **** this up, you're an idiot.

I still believe this is mute anyway. Before the two years are up, you'll see a very different Europe. The Italian/French/German elections are due in the next 12 months. Watch it burn.

Hollande has already seen the writing on the wall and bailed.
Free trade yes. Political union/free movement/European laws/unelected bureaucratic honey potters shove it up your ass.

Jog on

[swaledale]

Lets make one thing clear here. It doesn't have to cost millions of pounds or take decades to sort the divorce.

Once article 50 is triggered, the EU has 2 years MAXIMUM to negotiate any terms.
NO TERMS HAVE TO BE AGREED IN THAT TIME TO STOP IT.

If no terms are reached, then we walk away no matter what. That is LEGAL AND BINDING.

If anyone believes that the likes of BMW/AUDI/VW/CITROEN/RENAULT/FIAT are going to sit on their hands and let the EU **** this up, you're an idiot.

I still believe this is mute anyway. Before the two years are up, you'll see a very different Europe. The Italian/French/German elections are due in the next 12 months. Watch it burn.

Hollande has already seen the writing on the wall and bailed.
Free trade yes. Political union/free movement/European laws/unelected bureaucratic honey potters shove it up your ass.

Jog on

retired in shame after being shown to be so utterly clueless and wrong so many times, but no you keep coming back for more.

You do at least make me laugh and also worry a bit. because if your an example of the typical Brexit voter, then the UK is ****ed!!!

I can't be arsed to respond in detail to your post, its obvious that you have no capacity to understand complex issues and a rather touching faith in what UKIP and the Daily Express tell you!

But lets just explain one thing in the vain hope you might at lest be better educated about this issue than you ahve demonstrated to date.

Once article 50 is triggered, the UK and the EU have two years to negotiate a deal. By what stretch of the imagination do you think its going to be the UK calling the shots to a compliant EU? Any deal has to be ratified by all 27 member states I take it the companies you mention are in a position to influence all 27 nations?- it took 7 years for the Canada trade deal to be agreed.

If the UK just walks away from the EU with no deal, then WTO trade rules apply, minimum 10% tariffs plus the pound would drop through the roof - mm I think your going to get a little shock in the next couple of years, but then you wont notice!

[ramAnag]

Tricky, your post is so typical of the newfound 'Brexiteer' aggressive bully boy attitude. As someone who obviously believes in Brexit, southern raised a reasonable point which I think I answered in a reasonable way. Swale added his take on the situation in a perfectly measured manner. Then you come marching in with you 'storm trooper' style of capitals - they really don't make the point any better - telling people they're 'idiots', telling them to 'jog on' and 'shove it up their ass' and gleefully making suggestions that we'll be able to watch Europe 'burn', whatever that's meant to mean.
Fine line between your attitude and the type of extremist Brexiteer attitude which was responsible for Jo Cox's murder and the current threats to Gina Miller and Anna Soubry. Personally I accept that there are arguments on both sides, I obviously favour the Remain side but the attitude of hard core Brexiteers such as yourself is becoming both increasingly disturbed and disturbing.