OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

...although, in Banks' defence, he didn't unnecessarily call a nation-splitting referendum, which morally was a bigger crime than where a few mill came from, IMO

He didn’t...because his only power is his wealth...he is however one of the most dangerously divisive individuals in the country.

[MadAmster]

This might muddy the waters somewhat. Investigation into the Aaron Banks £8M donation to the Brexit cause. There is doubt, also raised last Sunday by Marr on his show, that Banks hasn't yet been able to clear up to anybody's satisfaction but his own, it would seem.

The piece is from iNews and they are deemed to be a slightly left of centre news source of good reliability. If true, this could lead to the referendum being declared null and void........

Enjoy....... https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/...5GVN66TaJrRXMM

[ramAnag]

This might muddy the waters somewhat. Investigation into the Aaron Banks £8M donation to the Brexit cause. There is doubt, also raised last Sunday by Marr on his show, that Banks hasn't yet been able to clear up to anybody's satisfaction but his own, it would seem.

The piece is from iNews and they are deemed to be a slightly left of centre news source of good reliability. If true, this could lead to the referendum being declared null and void........

Enjoy....... https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/...5GVN66TaJrRXMM

‘Enjoy’...I did! Ta MA.

[swaledale]

Swale, I was driving between my house and Bakewell a couple of mornings ago...beautiful morning, wonderful landscape when suddenly I passed a rusted and burned out car with the words ‘F*** Brexit’ sprayed on the side.
Of course I agree entirely with the message but deplore the ‘medium’...not only is it unnecessarily abusive but it is also totally unhelpful to those who want to use reason to defeat the Brexit argument.
Can’t help feeling you are the forum equivalent of that trashed car. I agree with your every word in post #3688 and the point is brilliantly made, but a post later you are abusing ‘Amster and accusing him of ‘astounding ignorance’...for what? Putting forward an alternative argument based on something that I, at least, don’t have the same knowledge of?
You and I may agree about virtually everything in relation to Brexit and Trump...I’ll concede that you even have a better understanding of the former but surely logic and reason are the way to win, not bullying abuse which just alienates you and your opinions.
Anyway...got to go...probably about to break my rules and shout abuse at Aaron Banks on the Andrew Marr programme!

Ah but your eminently reasonable RA, whereas I'm just astounded by the ignorance thats shown and I have no patience for it - don't really give a flying **** if that alienates people on here or elsewhere and lets face it this Forum is basically a bunch of clueless blokes posting opinions. - I simply loved the idiot the reckoned that utter **** Tricky had bested me - not because his posts had any facts, but because he was able to spew endless amounts of falsehoods, lies and bigotted rubbish - classic!

MA's ignorance overlooks the simple fact that a no deal brexit would be an economic disaster for this country and its not a simple case of lowering prices to reduce the effect of tariffs - cars and wine are a trifle compared to the costs to the Uk's ability to trade in financial services, the decimation of whats left of manufacuring industry, the crippling effect that cheap unregulated food imports on uk farmers, I could go on but hey as we all know if your firmly in the Brexit camp then inconvenient truths are ignored, until the day of reckoning comes - but we have already lost 17% in economic activity since the vote - these things are slow and insidious, by the time people notice it will be too late.

Anyway I'm certain that one of two things will happen - we will finish up in the customs union and single market for a never ending transition period or there will be a second referendum, which given that a damn sight more than 37% will vote will be heavily in favour of remaining in the EU.

[mistaram]

Ah but your eminently reasonable RA, whereas I'm just astounded by the ignorance thats shown and I
have no patience for it - don't really give a flying **** if that alienates people on here or elsewhere and lets face it this Forum is basically a bunch of clueless blokes posting opinions. - I simply loved the idiot the reckoned that utter **** Tricky had bested me - not because his posts had any facts, but because he was able to spew endless amounts of falsehoods, lies and bigotted rubbish - classic!

MA's ignorance overlooks the simple fact that a no deal brexit would be an economic disaster for this country and its not a simple case of lowering prices to reduce the effect of tariffs - cars and wine are a trifle compared to the costs to the Uk's ability to trade in financial services, the decimation of whats left of manufacuring industry, the crippling effect that cheap unregulated food imports on uk farmers, I could go on but hey as we all know if your firmly in the Brexit camp then inconvenient truths are ignored, until the day of reckoning comes - but we have already lost 17% in economic activity since the vote - these things are slow and insidious, by the time people notice it will be too late.

Anyway I'm certain that one of two things will happen - we will finish up in the customs union and single market for a never ending transition period or there will be a second referendum, which given that a damn sight more than 37% will vote will be heavily in favour of remaining in the EU.

" Forum is basically a bunch of clueless blokes posting opinions " Yes true especially you

[ramAnag]

‘This forum is basically a bunch of clueless blokes posting opinions’...bit like the Referendum itself then...and not unlike the Brexit Secretary who just about appears to have grasped that we’re an island trading nation and that the Dover-Calais route is quite crucial.

Hope your final sentence is right, Swale, whether you get closer to winning the argument by abusing people is for others to decide.

[Trickytreesreds]

Ah but your eminently reasonable RA, whereas I'm just astounded by the ignorance thats shown and I have no patience for it - don't really give a flying **** if that alienates people on here or elsewhere and lets face it this Forum is basically a bunch of clueless blokes posting opinions. - I simply loved the idiot the reckoned that utter **** Tricky had bested me - not because his posts had any facts, but because he was able to spew endless amounts of falsehoods, lies and bigotted rubbish - classic!

MA's ignorance overlooks the simple fact that a no deal brexit would be an economic disaster for this country and its not a simple case of lowering prices to reduce the effect of tariffs - cars and wine are a trifle compared to the costs to the Uk's ability to trade in financial services, the decimation of whats left of manufacuring industry, the crippling effect that cheap unregulated food imports on uk farmers, I could go on but hey as we all know if your firmly in the Brexit camp then inconvenient truths are ignored, until the day of reckoning comes - but we have already lost 17% in economic activity since the vote - these things are slow and insidious, by the time people notice it will be too late.

Anyway I'm certain that one of two things will happen - we will finish up in the customs union and single market for a never ending transition period or there will be a second referendum, which given that a damn sight more than 37% will vote will be heavily in favour of remaining in the EU.

You won't be around to see it.
You'll have had a coronary by then.


Your conceit for others having an opinion, is quite frankly dog ****. In fact you sound like a politician
Perhaps that's why you'd get nil points in a referendum, for being such a complete ****er.

Yes it's all doom and gloom. I hope we don't have our economy/infrastructure/industry/places to live/ ground into rubble like Germany in 1945.
They'll be no coming back from that.

[Andy_Faber]

‘ whether you get closer to winning the argument by abusing people is for others to decide.

I decided. It won't.

RA, (and others if interested) not sure whether this adds to this debate or not, but Mrs F and I accidentally happened upon a documentary this lunchtime called 'Shoulder to Shoulder' in which Brian O'Driscoll investigates the conundrum of how the Island of Ireland can unite around a common cause, that of its Rugby Union team. It engaged us so much that we were late for our own family meal, I suggest you search it out (on BT sport I'm afraid).

[MadAmster]

Ah but your eminently reasonable RA, whereas I'm just astounded by the ignorance thats shown and I have no patience for it - don't really give a flying **** if that alienates people on here or elsewhere and lets face it this Forum is basically a bunch of clueless blokes posting opinions. - I simply loved the idiot the reckoned that utter **** Tricky had bested me - not because his posts had any facts, but because he was able to spew endless amounts of falsehoods, lies and bigotted rubbish - classic!

MA's ignorance overlooks the simple fact that a no deal brexit would be an economic disaster for this country and its not a simple case of lowering prices to reduce the effect of tariffs - cars and wine are a trifle compared to the costs to the Uk's ability to trade in financial services, the decimation of whats left of manufacuring industry, the crippling effect that cheap unregulated food imports on uk farmers, I could go on but hey as we all know if your firmly in the Brexit camp then inconvenient truths are ignored, until the day of reckoning comes - but we have already lost 17% in economic activity since the vote - these things are slow and insidious, by the time people notice it will be too late.

Anyway I'm certain that one of two things will happen - we will finish up in the customs union and single market for a never ending transition period or there will be a second referendum, which given that a damn sight more than 37% will vote will be heavily in favour of remaining in the EU.

1. Looks like you might be following Tricky's lead. You claim a 17% decrease in economic activity since the referendum. I am not say ing the figure is false but I haven't seen it anywhere else. Can you give a source please?

2. I believe I have pretty consistent in a couple of things in this debate. Namely a) I am still not convinced that a full on Brexit will even happen and that is looking more and more likely b) I hate the EU with a vengeance but changing it from within is probably the best way forward

3. I quote something that has actually happened and offer that up as a likelihood in the UK too following Brexit (if it ever happens) and give a couple of areas where it has happened....... as examples. You blinker your view and take that as the entire width and breadth....... despite my hoping that the UK would leave and prompt others to follow suit. Unfortunately, those others seem to have looked at the "punishment" diatribe from the top of the EU and have backed off.

4. The EU does have some uses. It could help put a stop to the never ending cycle of all economic change being bent towards the so called 1% and the multinationals. A single country can't change banks, the stock market, the money markets and the ever increasing tax breaks the 1% and huge corporations get to the detriment of the worse off. I am not against people making money. Nor am I against investors in companies making money. What I am against is them not paying their fair share of the tax they should be paying because their mates in parliament have brought in new tax breaks for them.

IMO, forcing Starbucks, for instance, to pay the correct amount of tax in each and every individual country based on thie rearnings in THAT country would not lead to them selling a single cup of fancy named coffee more or less. Effect on jobs - NIL. Effect on the country concerned, ordinary people could get a tax break. Those are the people who will go out and spend that money which means income for the people they buy from and more income/corporation/Value Added Tax for the government.

The rich wouldn't suffer and the less well off would have a better life.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I decided. It won't.

RA, (and others if interested) not sure whether this adds to this debate or not, but Mrs F and I accidentally happened upon a documentary this lunchtime called 'Shoulder to Shoulder' in which Brian O'Driscoll investigates the conundrum of how the Island of Ireland can unite around a common cause, that of its Rugby Union team. It engaged us so much that we were late for our own family meal, I suggest you search it out (on BT sport I'm afraid).

I inadvertently clicked on Swale profile when reading posts and noticed that it stated:

"swaledale has not made any friends yet"

Never a truer word spoken!

As regards the O'Driscoll film, I too saw that Andy - twas illuminating