OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[AdiSalisbury]

Trying to school a forces veteran on the military, brilliant.

[Andy_Faber]

Eh no he doesn't he stands up for those wealthy funders of his who will love being able to rip off and exploit the "common man" whislt making more millions!

Our armed forces? Have you looked at our military capability lately, we don't have the capability to do anything significant on our own, so its either join with NATO, the USA or our european friends. The days when Britain was a major military power are long gone!

Plus as things stand we have a veto of being involved in any european army that may or may not evolve, so not really a point to you voting Brexit!

Cooperation between countries leads to a more peaceful world, jingoistic nationalism leads to the exact opposite - a look at history from WW" onwards will show that even when we did have a significant military capability, we needed others help to win major conflicts , we couldn't even wage a conflict like the falklands these days!

I've told you about those exclamation marks Swale, the punctuation mark of the desperate.

[ramAnag]

Trying to school a forces veteran on the military, brilliant.

He’s right though isn’t he Adi?

Claw obviously knows more about military conflict and the harsh reality of war than most, possibly all, of us...doesn’t make him any more expert on defence spending and military/political alliances though, imo.

It is absolutely counter productive to vote Brexit because you don’t support the concept of a European army...all that will happen if we ‘Leave’ is that we lose all input into the matter...just doesn’t make sense.

[AdiSalisbury]

No, not at all. Its arrogant, and insulting. I work in the defense industry but wouldn't be stupid enough to think I'd know more than someone who actually served.

[ramAnag]

No, not at all. Its arrogant, and insulting. I work in the defense industry but wouldn't be stupid enough to think I'd know more than someone who actually served.

Have to disagree Adi...I accept Swale can sometimes be arrogant and insulting and I have no idea what Claw’s military experience was, but the points made by ‘Basil’ make sense.
It is completely illogical to vote for Brexit because you don’t support the concept of a European army. You’re not going to prevent it happening - if that is the plan - but you are going to lose all say in its manifestation. Can’t see how that achieves anything.
I accept that I don’t fully understand the pros and cons of such an institution but I don’t believe having first hand experience of armed conflict is a prerequisite to understanding the importance of Europe’s political and military unity.

[AdiSalisbury]

Then disagree we shall

[ramAnag]

Then disagree we shall

Fair enough, but I’ve been watching Derby County since 1972 and supporting them since 1988 (long story)...doesn’t mean I know how to run a football club.

[claw84]

Ramanag and swale, I understand you doubt why I should not advocate a EU army, so I will spell it out...….Nato is responsible for peace across Europe. Nato has been the cornerstone of western security since WW2 and won the cold war before the EU even existed. When it has tried to intervene in security matters the Eu has failed and Nato has rescued the situation, such as in the Balkans in the 1990's. Mi5 and Mi6 base their information on the 5 eyes agreement with USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The EU does not help intelligence sharing, in fact many members cannot be trusted due to their close relationship with Russia. If we stay the EU is planning the creation of an EU army. This would mean that that the UK would lose control of its defence. Out side the EU we willretain close military ties with EU countries and our allies across the world, but will be able to deploy our forces as we wish, NOT HOW WE ARE TOLD BY BRUSSELS.

[claw84]

How much do I know ? Speak to Oldtimeram, he has read my book "A Piece of the Action" by graham Price with Amazon.

[ramAnag]

Ramanag and swale, I understand you doubt why I should not advocate a EU army, so I will spell it out...….Nato is responsible for peace across Europe. Nato has been the cornerstone of western security since WW2 and won the cold war before the EU even existed. When it has tried to intervene in security matters the Eu has failed and Nato has rescued the situation, such as in the Balkans in the 1990's. Mi5 and Mi6 base their information on the 5 eyes agreement with USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The EU does not help intelligence sharing, in fact many members cannot be trusted due to their close relationship with Russia. If we stay the EU is planning the creation of an EU army. This would mean that that the UK would lose control of its defence. Out side the EU we willretain close military ties with EU countries and our allies across the world, but will be able to deploy our forces as we wish, NOT HOW WE ARE TOLD BY BRUSSELS.

Just to be clear, claw...I have never questioned why you doubt the wisdom of ‘advocating an EU army’. I don’t know enough about it.

What I do question is your wisdom in relation to Brexit and an EU army.

You have said you are voting for Brexit specifically because you don’t want an EU army. As a member of the EU we are currently able to influence and even veto possible future decisions about such a thing...once we leave we lose all influence over something which, if you’re correct, is going to happen anyway...so how does ‘leaving’ help us?