OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[macstheman]

I've always found that when one resorts to abuse or attempts to belittle (except as part of a humourous interchange, eg between us and the red dogs!!) then your own argument becomes irrelevant and degraded. This discussion has definitely been downgraded to stereotypical political dogma where abuse and 'I'm right and you're wrong' have become the norm!!
I think the thread should be closed as it has become valueless!!

[ramAnag]

Well, just to complete the set, I’ll disagree with Rog and mac too. Haven’t ‘turned my fire’ on the pilot Rog. Swale and I have had this argument before...I agree with most of what he says just not the dogma that comes with it.
I don’t think, Swale apart, it’s become ‘I’m right and you’re wrong’, mac. Rog keeps changing his mind and MoP’s a wum () but even those who are diametrically opposed - eg me and Ram59 - have remained relatively civil...he even agreed with me about something last week, though nothing to do with Brexit admittedly.

[macstheman]

I have no qualms about you disagreeing with me rA, it's not the disagreeing that's the problem but the means by which, in some cases, the disagreement manifests itself. Having said that, I am right, of course!!!!!!

[MadAmster]

What about this headlong rush towards the US of E with even more centralised and and even less devolved say in our daily lives. You remember, that US of E that the liars told us was never the aim........ it was the entire reason they set up the Common Market in the first place and the reason I voted NO in the 70s.

They also told us there were, and would be, no plans for an EU army. They have now announced it. What they haven't said is how they see it being manned, supplied and paid for. The Brits and the US won't be in it. They won't have manpower in it. They won't be supplying arms to it other than any equipment they might sell to the EU. They won't be putting funds into it. The US and the UK are the largest suppliers of manpower, equipment and money to NATO. The EU Army will be a toothless tiger. Also what effect will this new gummy ***** cat have on affairs? The Russians and Chinese will be laughing themselves hoarse.

[Trickytreesreds]

Ooh er has the rear gunner turned his fire on the pilot!!! 😁😉😉

You're calling Ramanag a "rear gunner"? What are you insinuating you bad man? lol

[ramAnag]

Trust you to turn some long running wit into innuendo, Tricky.

I honestly don’t get this US of E stuff MA, we didn’t/don’t even share the same currency and there’s never been any pressure for us to, for example, fall into line and start driving on the right like the rest of Europe. Most of the laws that have been passed seem to have had the notion of workers/citizens rights being uppermost in mind and that’s certainly something you can’t say about any recent Tory directives in the UK.
As for the EU army...where’s the evidence? Just scaremongering imo. The Dutch and German forces already do some training together I believe, in much the same way as the Swedes and the Fins but with NATO and UN forces already established, what would be the point?

[Trickytreesreds]

Trust you to turn some long running wit into innuendo, Tricky.

I honestly don’t get this US of E stuff MA, we didn’t/don’t even share the same currency and there’s never been any pressure for us to, for example, fall into line and start driving on the right like the rest of Europe. Most of the laws that have been passed seem to have had the notion of workers/citizens rights being uppermost in mind and that’s certainly something you can’t say about any recent Tory directives in the UK.
As for the EU army...where’s the evidence? Just scaremongering imo. The Dutch and German forces already do some training together I believe, in much the same way as the Swedes and the Fins but with NATO and UN forces already established, what would be the point?

Come come, Ramag. It was worth a roll of the dice.

As for your opinion of "what's the point"? More influential people than you think there is a point and have/are pushing for it.
The longer we stay in that mix, the more we would get sucked into it.
Scaremongering it is NOT!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31796337

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qkU7qJtyTk

[MadAmster]

Trust you to turn some long running wit into innuendo, Tricky.

I honestly don’t get this US of E stuff MA, we didn’t/don’t even share the same currency and there’s never been any pressure for us to, for example, fall into line and start driving on the right like the rest of Europe. Most of the laws that have been passed seem to have had the notion of workers/citizens rights being uppermost in mind and that’s certainly something you can’t say about any recent Tory directives in the UK.
As for the EU army...where’s the evidence? Just scaremongering imo. The Dutch and German forces already do some training together I believe, in much the same way as the Swedes and the Fins but with NATO and UN forces already established, what would be the point?

Living here in Euroland, I get treated to the news put out by the Dutch, Germans, French and Italians directed straight into my living room. I also get the BBC News. I am amazed that Mayhem's lapdog, aka the beeb, doesn't push the truth of what is going on more factually rather than than the sound bytes they put out. The EU Army is on its way. So is the US of E. Macron himself says that a French in/out referendum would see them leave. I get the impression that the Germans would too. The EU Commission is planning more centralisation, more EU interference when in many EU countries the populace wants less. The political elite are hell bent on carrying out there plan. The problem is they have serially failed to tell the populace what that plan is. A US of E wouldn't necessarily require a single currency. The EU has become bigger and more powerful since '92 without one.

[ramAnag]

Living here in Euroland, I get treated to the news put out by the Dutch, Germans, French and Italians directed straight into my living room. I also get the BBC News. I am amazed that Mayhem's lapdog, aka the beeb, doesn't push the truth of what is going on more factually rather than than the sound bytes they put out. The EU Army is on its way. So is the US of E. Macron himself says that a French in/out referendum would see them leave. I get the impression that the Germans would too. The EU Commission is planning more centralisation, more EU interference when in many EU countries the populace wants less. The political elite are hell bent on carrying out there plan. The problem is they have serially failed to tell the populace what that plan is. A US of E wouldn't necessarily require a single currency. The EU has become bigger and more powerful since '92 without one.

There’s still no ‘evidence’ there MA. I ‘get’ many of the concerns, too much bureaucracy, too little accountability perhaps. It’s far from perfect I know but if there is as much ‘unrest’ in Europe as you suggest, why not remain and fight our corner, shouldn’t be too hard if, as you say the French and Germans are just as unhappy as the Brexiteers.
Little hope of that though, the World has gone mad and if you want evidence of that look no further than Trump’s latest answer to US gun atrocities...arm the teachers. Jeez...can things get anymore insane?

[MadAmster]

There’s still no ‘evidence’ there MA. I ‘get’ many of the concerns, too much bureaucracy, too little accountability perhaps. It’s far from perfect I know but if there is as much ‘unrest’ in Europe as you suggest, why not remain and fight our corner, shouldn’t be too hard if, as you say the French and Germans are just as unhappy as the Brexiteers.
Little hope of that though, the World has gone mad and if you want evidence of that look no further than Trump’s latest answer to US gun atrocities...arm the teachers. Jeez...can things get anymore insane?

Proof? Interviews with Rutte and other Dutch ministers. They natter on about closer cooperation on Defence and how that will benefit Dutch companies. They then go on to deny that it will lead to an EU Army but confirm that the idea is to have units ready at a second's notice to intervene or even attack. To me, the first half of that sentence contradicts the second half as, unless there are cohesive units working together the entire idea is pointless and that sounds very much like an organised army to me. Maybe one that isn't called an army but it is one when you think how many 1000's of troops would be involved.

November 2017 saw agreement reached on PESCO. Ratified in December 2017 by 24 of the 28 counties. Only the UK, Denmark, Portugal and Malta have yet to sign up. Some politicians have said it won't lead to an EU army. The Germans who, along with the French "run" the EU are hell bent on an EU army being the next step and I would not bet on them not getting their way. In Germany the FDP is the most Euro-sceptic party. Even they are pushing for an EU army.

It might be a decade away but it is on its way.