OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[triz]

Yes Triz, doomsday is happening right now.
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/e...html?index=UKX

There is only one person mentioning doomsday, I simply said we're in for a rough decade based on the governor of the BoE's speech, and the strength of the pound which is at 1985 levels today. I'm sure you know better though tricky.

[triz]

Did we not fight a war in the not too distant past to stop exactly this?

No

[Andy_Faber]

, please let's leave it to the politicians we've already voted for and the 'experts' in future. Hopefully we can still avoid the trigger on the gun that's pointing at the other foot.

....although that's what we did, and the politicians decided something NO man in the street had said they wanted, to give us a referendum! If Brexit goes the way of the soothsayers, I think that one decision will prove to be the biggest dropped ******* ever

[ramAnag]

Take your point Andy...but imo that was one politician (Cameron) taking leave of his senses in an effort to prevent the fragmentation of the Tory party. He, and others, then became utterly complacent in their handling of the 'Remain' campaign, but prior to that the vast majority of democratically elected MP's did not favour Brexit which is, as you say, in the process of leading to the 'biggest dropped ******* ever'.

[Andy_Faber]

Take your point Andy...but imo that was one politician (Cameron) taking leave of his senses in an effort to prevent the fragmentation of the Tory party. He, and others, then became utterly complacent in their handling of the 'Remain' campaign, but prior to that the vast majority of democratically elected MP's did not favour Brexit which is, as you say, in the process of leading to the 'biggest dropped ******* ever'.

agreed, although I think BOTH sides put their arguments over pretty lamentably/corruptly. The main remain error was that they totally missed the point on the immigration issue, which IMO is not hatred towards individuals but concern that we'll just run out resources to handle the sheer volume as it increases.

PS I voted remain but when I saw celebrities jumping on the 'all leave voters are racists' bandwagon I nearly voted leave just for buggeration. Billy Bragg started it I recall

[roger_ramjet]

Take your point Andy...but imo that was one politician (Cameron) taking leave of his senses in an effort to prevent the fragmentation of the Tory party. He, and others, then became utterly complacent in their handling of the 'Remain' campaign, but prior to that the vast majority of democratically elected MP's did not favour Brexit which is, as you say, in the process of leading to the 'biggest dropped ******* ever'.

The very fact that the vast majority of "snouts in the trough" politicians favoured "remain" is possibly the biggest single reason to vote "leave". You assume, Mangara, that MP's have any more knowledge about the EU than Joe Public: I am not convinced they do, other than by comparison to the most ill informed members of the public. merely being an MP does not in itself give you any more understanding of the complexities of an institution like the EU. They may have had passing interaction with the EU in their ministerial etc roles, if they had one - but why should a newly elected opposition backbencher (for example) have any better idea of the functionality of the machine than you or I?

I voted remain, but only after considerable soul searching and realising that I was in effect voting in trust for my children and grandchildren. It was a close run thing. Let me give you my personal experience of interfacing with the EU when I was called to give evidence by DGIV (the Directorate General for Competition) a few years back. My appointment was for 11-30 and I was advised to get their an hour before this time. I walked past miles of faceless buildings until I found the right entrance. It took me 30 minutes to get past security even though there was a queue of one person (me). I had to surrender my passport for the time I was inside the building. It then took another 20 minutes to make my way along endless corridors of power (thanks for the expression Mr Snow) until I reached the meeting place. I was then met by no less than 5 bureaucrats (one each from Belgium, France, Romania, Czech Republic and the leader from, needless to say, Germany). The interview took about 45 minutes and was "simulcast" in two other languages for the benefit of the French and German speakers. I was then released back into the wild after what can only be described as a Kafka-esque experience. The Romanian interviewer was "dead fit" though, in a vampiric sort of way!

Some weeks later I had occasion to try to contact the people again to try to get an opinion on a question relevant to the interview. Not one of those bureaucrats was still working on the case - all had moved on and the new people in situ had no clue what I was talking about. A few years later (yes, years) DGIV dropped the investigation having come to no conclusions.

The words "piss up" and "brewery" come to mind

[ramAnag]

agreed, although I think BOTH sides put their arguments over pretty lamentably/corruptly. The main remain error was that they totally missed the point on the immigration issue, which IMO is not hatred towards individuals but concern that we'll just run out resources to handle the sheer volume as it increases.

PS I voted remain but when I saw celebrities jumping on the 'all leave voters are racists' bandwagon I nearly voted leave just for buggeration. Billy Bragg started it I recall

Wouldn't argue with any of that. Must have missed the celebrity bit...rarely listen to them...and I don't think 'all leave voters are racist', although sadly I think it likely that all the racists probably voted 'Leave' which in turn is one of the reasons for the referendum being 'hijacked'.

[ramAnag]

Two or three points there Rog.
I find your story completely believable and wouldn't doubt you for a second, but isn't that the story of bureaucrats in all walks of life?
My own experience is nothing like as grand as yours - just dealing with Derby City Council - but the attitude, complacency and worse that you describe is much the same.
Secondly, when you speak of me assuming that MP's have 'more knowledge about the EU than Joe Public'. I think you have to accept that yours is not the voice of 'Joe Public'. Not entirely sure what your job is but I believe you are paid for your expertise on economic matters. As such you may well be better informed than some MP's but the majority of those who voted, and I include myself, are not.
Even the most recently elected MP must surely be expected to have some familiarity with budgetary matters and the relationship between the UK and the EU. I don't hold MP's in any great regard at all - enlightened despotism is imo by far the most effective form of government except that you can't guarantee the 'enlightened' bit! I would however expect any MP to be better informed than those Brexiteers (not all RP and Angry) who appear to have hijacked a referendum on the EU to protest about immigration and because they believed the big £350m lie, all of which has led to the current economic and political chaos and appears to be sending us rapidly back into recession.

[Trickytreesreds]

for the collapse in the value of the pound, the increase in hate crime and the likely break up of the U.K. What a legacy...just what we needed.
1. the pound has not collapsed and always gone up and down. Some don't like it some do. Exports can actually benefit.
In fact your comment lacks any sound credence considering that, historically, the British Pound reached an all time high of 2.86 in December of 1957 and a record low of 1.05 in February of 1985.
But that must have been the fault of Brexit.
2. race hate- the Independent(shock horror)claims hate crime has gone up 57% Now I'm not condoning any of this, yet look at the figures before jumping on a soap box.

2009- 52 028 hate crimes
2015- 52 528 hate cimes

The big leap?
There were 85 reports of hate crimes to True Vision, a police-funded reporting website, between Thursday and Sunday compared with 54 reports over the same period four weeks ago. yep, 31 more crimes of a few idiots, printing silly labels.

It's nice to see the anger and project fear is still feeding the gullible. Of course hate crime in this country has nothing to do with the influx of circa 350 000 people per year flooding the country. (thats a lie as well seeing as the DWP issued 650 000 NI numbers last year)
So if you wish blame Farage. Many of us moaned at what the EU was doing and he stepped in.
We'll see how this great project fairs when Turkey/Albania/Ukraine join the fray and not only suck at the teat of plenty, but their populations are on the move.
Then you'll start to see hate crime of which we won't have to endure.

[Oldtimeram]

Anag

Derby City Council, I worked there many moons ago. Blast from the past. I always remember playing in an inter departmental charity cricket match and the then soon to be Chief Executive Ray Cowlishaw ran me out with a fluke throw at the wicket from about 50 yards away. He never let me forget that. I think the CEO at that time was a chap called Tagg if I recall?