OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

I think we WANT the same thing but IMO we’ve got in a right bleeding mess being too polite/scared to ‘have a say’ as individuals and collectives and if it takes extremists like Mogg and Corbyn to stimulate the discussion I’ll take that as the route forward for a few years

I see it more as...I think we’d settle for similar things.
Don’t think of Corbyn as an ‘extremist’...to use one of your adjectives I think his aims are quite ‘noble’ but I do see him as a naive idealist. Someone who would be better of as an advocate for the poor and dispossessed than as a Party leader...not much wrong with that either.
Mogg I just see as a hideous irrelevance...academically clever but morally bankrupt.

[Manofpride]

Oh dear...so it’s a sort of new Nazi party you’re after?
Anyway you have to be an MP to lead a Party...remind me...how many times has NF screwed that up? SSSSSSSeven as I recall.
Hope you’re just being a wum again MoP and don’t really mean it.

No way would I want to be involved with a Nazi party or be involved in any way with the NF.

[Manofpride]

Mogg I just see as a hideous irrelevance...academically clever but morally bankrupt.

Not happy with that remark either!

[Manofpride]

Now back to the topic, the future is Brexit. If we all get on board and just go with what the people voted it would be better for the Country if we all moved forward on this one rather than trying to upset the apple cart!

[Andy_Faber]

Now back to the topic, the future is Brexit. If we all get on board and just go with what the people voted it would be better for the Country if we all moved forward on this one rather than trying to upset the apple cart!

I agree with that and I voted remain...

Regarding 'The Moggster', he's anything but irrelevant, and 'morally bankrupt' is a bit of leftie propaganda I think RA has picked up somewhere. He has deeply held and in some cases extreme views, but so do most people, and he may pick up enough popular support to make a real difference.

[ramAnag]

Honestly now MoP, do you mean any of this or are you just mischief making?
You seem far too intelligent for it to be the former but, tbf, you’ve stuck with it since you started the thread (20 months ago!).
Surely you recognise that Farage is nothing more than a ‘scrubbed up’ more articulate version of the NF and when you say ‘all move forward’ with Brexit without upsetting the ‘apple cart’, what does that mean?
The ‘apple cart’ has been well and truly upset since day one. The ‘decision’ to leave Europe won, at best, the tiniest of majorities and in actuality there is arguably no mandate at all.
We are no clearer now than in June 2016 as to what Brexit means and what type of Brexit we are seeking. The thinking has been muddled ever since and it’s not just the likes of me who hold that opinion but leading industrialists, manufacturers and bankers too.

[MadAmster]

The cause of the problem is the question asked at the referendum. It was a digital choice, in or out. 52% of those who voted, voted out. So, the UK is leaving the EU.

What the dumbass Tories have failed to do since then is decide what they see as the best form of Brexit for the UK and then go for it, knowing full well that there would have to be give and take on both sides, as there is in all negotiations. Both sides set their stall out and then compromise towards a settlement both can live with. Because the government doesn't know what they want, they are in a very weak position as they have no bargaining chips.

As it stands I can see but 3 possible outcomes of it all.

1. We leave on terms set by the EU Commission which will mean we have what we have always had, pay billions for the privilege and also lose any say in future EU Laws but still have to abide by them.

2. We stay in on exactly the same terms as we have now but have wasted 2 years during which time we have been excluded from some EU decision making because we were leaving

3. No deal. No big payout to the EU. We simply leave and start trading with the rest of the world as well as the EU under the WTO tariff system.

[ramAnag]

The cause of the problem is the question asked at the referendum. It was a digital choice, in or out. 52% of those who voted, voted out. So, the UK is leaving the EU.

What the dumbass Tories have failed to do since then is decide what they see as the best form of Brexit for the UK and then go for it, knowing full well that there would have to be give and take on both sides, as there is in all negotiations. Both sides set their stall out and then compromise towards a settlement both can live with. Because the government doesn't know what they want, they are in a very weak position as they have no bargaining chips.

As it stands I can see but 3 possible outcomes of it all.

1. We leave on terms set by the EU Commission which will mean we have what we have always had, pay billions for the privilege and also lose any say in future EU Laws but still have to abide by them.

2. We stay in on exactly the same terms as we have now but have wasted 2 years during which time we have been excluded from some EU decision making because we were leaving

3. No deal. No big payout to the EU. We simply leave and start trading with the rest of the world as well as the EU under the WTO tariff system.

But, and I know I’m being repetitive, only 37% of the actual electorate voted for this MA so in no way is it the ‘will of the people’.
They didn’t know then and they don’t know now what they were voting for so the only rational way forward is to have everything clearly mapped out and then put it to a Parliamentary vote.

[Andy_Faber]

But, and I know I’m being repetitive, only 37% of the actual electorate voted for this MA so in no way is it the ‘will of the people’.
They didn’t know then and they don’t know now what they were voting for so the only rational way forward is to have everything clearly mapped out and then put it to a Parliamentary vote.

I think you know though that you are wasting your breath (or risking RSI on your keyboard tapping finger) on this, if you feel so strongly about it you should have abstained - I know you are well-informed enough to have realised when you walked into that polling booth that NEITHER option was going to earn over 50% of the vote, so isn't it hypocritical to be prepared to accept/celebrate a 37% Remain vote but not a 37% leave one?

Yes you are being repetative, but worse than that you are being backward looking which is stealing the professional thunder and raison d'etre of the accountants such as Roger and I (well more so Roger)

[mistaram]

ramAnag of course you are right only 37% of those eligible to vote voted leave. But 27.9%of eligible voters decided not to vote at all So we can only speculate which way they would have voted Now you can saay as often as you like we didn't know what we were voting for and we probably still don't know But we live in a democracy where for hundreds of years we have been subjected to the notion " If you don't participate your voice is not heard " So afraid you will have to take this one on the chin