OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Ram59]

Let us look at the immigration figures in another way, several on here claim they pay their way.

First of all we all agree that our services are at breaking point with no spare capacity. Now let us consider that net immigration Is greater than the population of Derby each year.

Can the people of Derby pay their way to run the city, probably yes. But for this year's immigrants their isn't an empty city of Derby waiting to be filled, no, there needs a new one to be built with houses, schools, medical facilities, roads etc, etc.

Could the people of Derby or immigrants pay to build a new city each year? Not a bloody chance.

We are using immigrants to do work that our population can't or won't do, which is ultimately the failure of successive governments.

Each year we fill a city of Derby's size with immigrants which do jobs that we should be doing and create jobs that we're prepared and able to do. But this comes at heavy price, an increasing strain on our services and space on this small island.

Finally, what is the damage we are doing to the countries from which the immigrants arrive? Can they afford to train doctors and nurses, only to see them clear off to Britain, can they afford to have food rotting in fields because their pickers are over here? Is that really fair?

[Andy_Faber]

As we all seem so bloody interested in the way the UK works, might be worth having a nose at this, some fascinating reading

http://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/

[Ram59]

The latest UK population statistics published a few days ago now put the figure at 65.6 million. This is an increase of 5.6 million in 11 years and is not sustainable.

It's not all down to EU'immigration but we need to have as many controls as possible to slow this growth down.

We are The most densely populated major economy in the EU'.

[Trickytreesreds]

The latest UK population statistics published a few days ago now put the figure at 65.6 million. This is an increase of 5.6 million in 11 years and is not sustainable.

It's not all down to EU'immigration but we need to have as many controls as possible to slow this growth down.

We are The most densely populated major economy in the EU'.

Yep, but if you live in the sticks of Derbyshire, it doesn't matter because it doesn't effect me. :-/

The current influx levels, can not be maintained. Anyone with a brain cell can see that.
It is bad for us and bad for the countries they come from. The EU has destroyed young employment and its answer is migration.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-eu-countries/

The policy has also fueled, non EU migration trying to capitalise on the movement.
At the moment( forget Syria), half of Africa is trying to get in. What does the EU do?
Provides a ferry service.
This isn't going to end well.

[Trickytreesreds]

As we all seem so bloody interested in the way the UK works, might be worth having a nose at this, some fascinating reading

http://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/

Ireland/Poland/Hungary/Portugal less worried about migrants? I wonder why

[ramAnag]

Ok Ramanag, what has Farage said wrong?

He called for controlled migration, not an open door policy?
At the moment there is no way to stop anyone from the EU walking in and doing what they like?
From sleeping in Hyde park, to claiming for their "kids". Nothing to stop a back log for bottom tier jobs that our youth should be doing, to get their asses into gear, rather than stifling wages.
You only have to look around the Med for an example of this.
If the NHS needs workers, fine. Invite them in. If builders need brick layers fine, invite them in. If Norfolk needs strawberry pickers, fine invite them in.

But numbers have to be controlled.
I'll give you an example of the load on our services shall I? I have been waiting for a cancer op for 4 months. I asked why and the doctor told me himself, it's because we are so over loaded. Our influx through the door has gone through the roof.
I asked him to his face, migration? He looked at the ceiling and said"it's a problem"

I respected his honesty, so please don't play it down. I know you are going to blame the government for lack of money, but we wasn't ready for this.
The EU caused it, sending waves across Europe in search of money and to escape unemployment.
I don't blame them, I blame our weak governments for their Liberal, spineless, appeasement.

Tricky...firstly, I'm genuinely sorry you need the 'op' you describe. We disagree on most things but I wish you no harm.
Someone as close as it gets to me needed similar treatment a few years ago. I visited the hospital twice each day for seven**** consecutive days and it was obvious there was a problem in terms of bed availability but it was 'caused' by old people - who were, depressingly, happier to be cared for over winter in hospital than to return home - even though they no longer had any medical needs.
I didn't blame them then and I don't think it's down to migration in your case. You will recall that I have agreed there is an issue with immigration and the way it is managed but to keep laying everything at the door of immigrants in the way you, Ram59 and Farage - with his totally bogus photos - do is, imo, just wrong. Try cuts, austerity, and the gross disparity in wealth distribution if you want an alternative cause. Also remember that, prior to the financial 'crash', successive Blair governments had overseen huge investment in the NHS - new and much improved hospital facilities in Derby and Ashbourne are just two of many examples. Perhaps those greedy and corrupt bankers who caused the 'crash' might be more obvious culprits.
Hope you soon get the treatment you need and enjoy a full recovery.

[Trickytreesreds]

Tricky...firstly, I'm genuinely sorry you need the 'op' you describe. We disagree on most things but I wish you no harm.
Someone as close as it gets to me needed similar treatment a few years ago. I visited the hospital twice each day for seven**** consecutive days and it was obvious there was a problem in terms of bed availability but it was 'caused' by old people - who were, depressingly, happier to be cared for over winter in hospital than to return home - even though they no longer had any medical needs.
I didn't blame them then and I don't think it's down to migration in your case. You will recall that I have agreed there is an issue with immigration and the way it is managed but to keep laying everything at the door of immigrants in the way you, Ram59 and Farage - with his totally bogus photos - do is, imo, just wrong. Try cuts, austerity, and the gross disparity in wealth distribution if you want an alternative cause. Also remember that, prior to the financial 'crash', successive Blair governments had overseen huge investment in the NHS - new and much improved hospital facilities in Derby and Ashbourne are just two of many examples. Perhaps those greedy and corrupt bankers who caused the 'crash' might be more obvious culprits.
Hope you soon get the treatment you need and enjoy a full recovery.

Thank you for the kind post.
I don't always agree with you ramanag and probably never will.
I know there is a problem with immigration swamping everything. But leave that for now.
On the bankers etc, I agree wholeheartedly.
Thanks again

[Ram59]

I think if you take away that 10% population growth of the last 11 years, there wouldn't be such a strain on our services. Just think in those 11 years we've needed to not just Run, but also build 10% more hospitals, schools, doctors surgeries, dentists, houses, etc, Just to stand still. Those 10%could not have possibly have funded that, never mind delays with planning.

We talk of austerity, but the government spends more each year, god knows where the money goes though!

[ramAnag]

Okay Ram59...now you've reappeared from post election hiding () I'll take the bait. As usual there is an element of truth in what you say although not enough to base your whole anti immigrant theory around imo.
So our population has increased by around 0.8% per year for the last decade and of course migration is responsible for a part of that, I have never argued otherwise.
On the other hand there was also a 'baby boom' factor during the same period and people are, quite simply, living longer. The reasons for the increasing population are thus more varied than you suggest and, yes, they include, but are far from entirely due to, immigration.
The fact is that we are living in a more complex society and there has to be some joined up thought - thought that transcends repeatedly blaming immigrants but takes account of a growing population - if we are to make the progress we are undoubtedly capable of.
As for the shortage of schools, doctors, dentists, hospitals etc. At a local level, look at the amount of housing development that has and is currently taking place around such places as Mickleover and Ashbourne (areas coincidentally where there are very few immigrants). Someone - far, far away in all probability - is making an absolute fortune out of such developments. Landowners and developers make a real 'killing' out of the need for more housing but do they have to take responsibility for the development of appropriate infrastructure? I suspect not, so how about some sort of equation whereby developers have to contribute a ring fenced amount - or incorporate into the plans - to provide the necessary services to meet the needs of these new additions to the local population?

[Ram59]

A few questions....

When do we feel that our country is over populated?

How do we prevent this happening?

Compulsory euthanasia for all over 90's?

Random culling at birth of babies?

Resume deportation to Australia of all undesirables?

Refusal to treat serious illness?

Tighter control on immigration?

Seriously though, how else can we hold back the tide of increasing population?

As for the lie that immigrants pay their way, can we ask them for enough money, up front, to pay to build a city the size of Derby that is needed to accommodate them next year, alone?