Gary Rowett

[trevor1946]

The trouble with Clough is he can only manage small clubs Sheff U proved that

Derby County--Sheff Utd---Offered Forest,all 30,000 plus all seater stadiums.
Small clubs,Please look at facts before you post,A small club is Burton Albion,He took them from div 1 with automatic promotion
into the championship,with a fan base of 3,000,do not be impressed , facts are not your strong point.
And turns down a big money job while trying to keep the club in the Championship with his 500,000 pound budget.

[trevor1946]

If we had....we would probably be mid table either way but playing before crowds of 12,000 bored fans.

I think Nigel exemplifies the Peter Principle rather well - percussive sublimation at its best.

12.000 gates were at the baseball ground before Clough,me thinks you got the wrong one, pride park is where Nigel managed,
Not the ipro, remember when the club was in turmoil,and money was tight and success was staying in the Championship.
With team building the key,Remember the playoffs,And Maclaren inheriting a first class squad his words,not mine.
Finished 12th n 10th,4 seasons ago ,Hendrick n Martin fetching 13 milllion in 2016 And after he was sacked Derby County was sold for a big profit to the American owners,A good job done

[ramAnag]

Think you missed the point Trevor. At Derby he did a decent job of balancing the books but couldn't take us any further and repeatedly fell out with individual players. Sheffield United are probably the biggest club below Championship level but again he couldn't take them up, a step they are now in a strong position to make now he's gone. Forest is irrelevant because he didn't take the job and the only place he's had success is little old Burton, hence the claim about 'small' clubs. He's never proved able to get bigger clubs over the 'next hurdle'...wouldn't rule out success over our 'thirty minute warriors' next week though.

[sixtiesram]

12.000 gates were at the baseball ground before Clough,me thinks you got the wrong one, pride park is where Nigel managed,
Not the ipro, remember when the club was in turmoil,and money was tight and success was staying in the Championship.
With team building the key,Remember the playoffs,And Maclaren inheriting a first class squad his words,not mine.
Finished 12th n 10th,4 seasons ago ,Hendrick n Martin fetching 13 milllion in 2016 And after he was sacked Derby County was sold for a big profit to the American owners,A good job done

What Trevor never explains is why, with basically the same players, McClaren found it instantly and consistently so much easier to win football matches.
Nigel Clough is a decent bloke and I like the way he treats people and his players, but he has yet to prove he is anything other than an ordinary manager.

[trevor1946]

Think you missed the point Trevor. At Derby he did a decent job of balancing the books but couldn't take us any further and repeatedly fell out with individual players. Sheffield United are probably the biggest club below Championship level but again he couldn't take them up, a step they are now in a strong position to make now he's gone. Forest is irrelevant because he didn't take the job and the only place he's had success is little old Burton, hence the claim about 'small' clubs. He's never proved able to get bigger clubs over the 'next hurdle'...wouldn't rule out success over our 'thirty minute warriors' next week though.

No my point is with mega millions spent over 4 seasons ,and Maclaren--Clements-Wassell-Pearson--Maclaren ,enjoying,mega millions spent on players,we are still in the championship,Means to me,that after all the hype the club are no better off in football terms,And if still run on the same budget Clough had would be in a real mess.
Sheff utd,again a club in turmoil .At the bottom of league one.in 18 months he got them to 7th-5th=Playoffs-Semi final league cup,
Semi final F-A-cup,And again ,been a long time since Derby got to the latter stages of a major cup competition,,and so again he left the club in a far better position,than he found it,and in Sheff Utd have got a poor record with managers,and a dictator in McCabe the owner,Funny how owners,change Head Coaches-or managers,some not knowing who to have,perhaps a yes man fits the bill.So a Clough would not fit the bill. The next hurdle, ,i would think the next hurdle,means different things to different clubs,
Finance and infrastructure,And improvement on the pitch,seems a good criteria,with a solid base i-e academy .
Burton are a credit to grass roots football.Derby with Finance-infrastructure,a Academy bringing in young blood, a team improving every year on the pitch,,seemed ready for a push for promotion,Bring in Sam rush who changed the whole concept of the club in 6 months,With his own billionaire ,And 4 seasons on we can enjoy championship football,and guess what ,one player now costs what a full team was built over a 4 years period est 6 million .Over the moon that you will find beating a team with a fan base of 3,000,A measure of success,in our new multi million pound team,Me i will look on a side that cost 500.000 pounds to put together.And wonder why are they on the same pitch.4 years ago they were mid table in div 2 and 20.000 pounds were a fortune to spend on a player,Seems 4 wasted years to me,Sam Rush --new phase--next level--continental approach-- seems bull to me

[trevor1946]

What Trevor never explains is why, with basically the same players, McClaren found it instantly and consistently so much easier to win football matches.
Nigel Clough is a decent bloke and I like the way he treats people and his players, but he has yet to prove he is anything other than an ordinary manager.

Clough had took 4 years to build the infrastructure,get the finances in order and put the academy under Wasell in place,bringing in youngsters like Hanson-Naylor-Bennett=Hughes-Hendrick,Into the 1st team frame,And he expected to push for the playoffs.
With a talented squad,The home results were poor ,but a good return on our away matches,with 2 home games coming up now was a opportunity to sort out the home form,Sammon missing a one on one against Forest,in the last minutes of the game.
left a sour taste in the mouth. 14 matches into a defining season ,A bit early to jump ship.MacLaren a top=top=coach had all the
Tools in place to mount a challenge. Agood manager leaves clubs in better shape than when he arrived.
Burton Albion--Derby County-Sheff Utd--Burton ALbion,Even when they were top of the league.

[roger_ramjet]

Does anyone have a babel fish so that I can translate that Joycian sprawl above please?

[trevor1946]

[QUOTE=roger_ramjet;38437272]Does anyone have a babel fish so that I can translate that Joycian sprawl above please?[/
No i can not help you. football is a simple game
That is why i can understand it,With your intellect,and words,that fool so many of us,you understand why our club has not progressed,,And can believe all that you are told ,

[AdiSalisbury]

If we're gonna harp back to Clough, then why not go a bit further? I'd argue Phil Brown did a better job, with less resources, and was unfairly hounded by fans (including myself), yet given a fraction of the patience Clough was.

Sam & Mel's mistake, was not dealing with Mac the 1st time around. Now he's got to try and get us close to what we were when he left, essentially writing off the last 2 years. The summer, for me, is where his teeth will get cut.

[ramAnag]

Trevor...you've still not answered sixtiesram's point. I appreciate Clough stabilised Derby at a difficult time but beyond that he achieved little. He made some very good signings along with some shockingly bad ones and his man management was, at times, appalling - something which rumours would suggest hasn't really changed. Above all though, if he was so capable how was it - as sixtiesram asks - that McClaren, first time around, could suddenly turn also rans into play off finalists?

Adi...so would you stick with him or look elsewhere or does it depend on what sort of reaction he manages to get from the players over the next three months? Personally I still wish we'd gone for Rowett last summer. Sure we'd be in a better position than we are now but...we didn't so what next?