Barnsley...deja vu

[macstheman]

Ffs a wins a win but as ever DCFCArmy points out the reality ffs

[ramAnag]

So come on then you miserable gits (Anag & Swale lol), whats your thoughts on todays game, the result, the opposition, the season as a whole etc.. ?

Didn't go Acido. Fed up with chucking hundreds of pounds into the coffers of millionaire players that repeatedly don't come up with the goods. By 'goods' I don't mean promotion either, before someone accuses me of being a 'fairweather fan', I mean effort and commitment. Each of my visits to Pride Park involves a round trip of around 50 miles and an additional outlay...ticket, programme etc of at least £30. Watching players earn around a thousand times that amount each week and still barely muster a shot on target has, you're right, turned me into a 'miserable git' as far as football is concerned this season and taking a break, for the time being, is the option I've taken.
As for the season. Barnsley have done well and that's good to see. Seem to have relied on commitment and teamwork, two qualities which have been conspicuously lacking at Derby for the last couple of seasons. Until we understand that and start operating with some joined up thought - square pegs etc - in the transfer market...and get ourselves a leader I fear we'll continue to thrash around as just another under achieving club in the Championship. I'll be back when I see some evidence of proper leadership both on and off the pitch.

[tamworthram]

So according to your later message you didn't go yesterday but you can still comment on the performance, commitment, chances created etc? What are you basing your assessment on?

OK, we weren't brilliant yesterday, especially the first half an hour but it's worth remembering:

1) We did actually win
2) Barnsley have proved they're no mugs
3) We created a lot more chances than in other games recently (presumably more than we created at Oakwell - I was out of the country so couldn't make it)
4) We're currently in a dreadful morale/confidence busting run so, it was probably never going to be great yesterday.

Things aren't great at the moment but you're criticism sounds a bit harsh to me. To conveniently exclude the winning streak is quite handy. Maybe we could ignore the current "none winning" run and say things have been great.

[ramAnag]

So according to your later message you didn't go yesterday but you can still comment on the performance, commitment, chances created etc? What are you basing your assessment on?

OK, we weren't brilliant yesterday, especially the first half an hour but it's worth remembering:

1) We did actually win
2) Barnsley have proved they're no mugs
3) We created a lot more chances than in other games recently (presumably more than we created at Oakwell - I was out of the country so couldn't make it)
4) We're currently in a dreadful morale/confidence busting run so, it was probably never going to be great yesterday.

Things aren't great at the moment but you're criticism sounds a bit harsh to me. To conveniently exclude the winning streak is quite handy. Maybe we could ignore the current "none winning" run and say things have been great.

1) I haven't made any comment at all on the performance against Barnsley yesterday.
2) My comments are about what I've paid to watch since late December.
3) I was replying to Acido, the Barnsley fan, who actually asked me (and Swale) a question.
4) I'm glad we won yesterday but I'm not 'conveniently excluding the winning streak', it's just that two and a half months of good results doesn't count for much and I've run out of patience with poor decisions and lack of effort.
5) Sorry if you think that's a 'bit harsh'...sadly I'd say it's also fair.

[Rattea]

I disagree Swale...I don't think we've looked 'generally okay' since before Christmas and it's decision time imo. Don't often agree with DCFCA but he's right on this occasion. Millions spent and we'd probably have been sitting in mid table anyway.
If anything we're looking less capable now than we were this time last season under the much maligned Darren Wassall.
I don't usually like playing the 'blame game' but it's the same old story week in week out...60-70%+ possession and we manage just one or two efforts on target.
Earlier this week there was a suggestion that McClaren should be kept as a coach and let someone else manage. Why? He's been coaching the team since October and this is the result...loads of possession, loads of sideways passing and absolutely zilch in terms of penetration.
So who's to blame? The players, McClaren, Kevin Philips - who appears completely unable to pass on his own undoubted talent via his coaching role?
Frankly the only person I absolve - largely - from blame is Mel. Not because I'm particularly fond of him - he's just another business man - but at least he puts his money where his mouth is. Likewise the fans have continued to put their money in but something is seriously wrong. The owner and the fans deserve better and sadly blame does have to be apportioned, changes do have to be made and sooner rather than later imo.

The rot started before before Mel. Impatience and trying to force something that wasn't there has resulted in this. We were moving forward and things started to look bright so in the infinite wisdom Clough was got rid of and McClaren was brought in to accelerate things ...... is it four years on and how many million more we are in a worse position than we were then on all fronts. Unsustainable business model, less than average team, boring football, over expectation of fans and moving backwards as a club. Where we are is pitiful.

I don't deny the first few years under Clough were poor football but he did better than Pardew in the same situation and look what hes done since. Any manager having players ripped out from under them no money to spend and having to wheel and deal we were moving in the right way. There were some signings that didnt work out but the majority proved to be amazing bargains we still benefit from today. Big talking by Sam Rush meant pressure was piled on him quickly and there was two ways to go .... find a scape goat or prove people wrong show some guts and persevere. We were playing great football when the wrong decision was made. I beleive he would have got us up with a fraction of the investment in players but would have struggled up there. Maybe not ... who knows.

Mel has made some bad decision but he inherited the club that had had its heart and soul ripped out shortly before and its a hard task to put that back. Some strange decisions haven't helped but he started on the back foot and I suspect he thought wrongly as a lot of others money could solve it. Its made it worse.

For me taking McClaren back has compounded that. Both Wassell and Clement did much better respectively. I suspect Mel will see what happens at the start of next season and if its not going well we will see another change. This one has to be on the money or I fear we will go the way Charlton did when we started this journey.

[Acido]

As for the season. Barnsley have done well and that's good to see. Seem to have relied on commitment and teamwork, two qualities which have been conspicuously lacking at Derby for the last couple of seasons.

Yes we have surprised a lot of teams this season and its good to see us get there with Hecky (hes one of our own!). It was always going to be hard and this league gets harder every season, but Im glad we reached the 50 points total with 12 games left.

[ramAnag]

Think you're right Acido, it does get harder every year. We missed a great chance in 2014 and again last year. Suspect Sunderland will be next year's Newcastle. The other two who come down - looking increasingly like Hull and Boro' - will be strong and there are some good clubs who haven't made it this year along with, in all probability, a resurgent Sheffield United. On the bright side...for us, expectation will be lower and you'll have a Yorkshire derby every other week.

[Acido]

Think you're right Acido, it does get harder every year. We missed a great chance in 2014 and again last year. Suspect Sunderland will be next year's Newcastle. The other two who come down - looking increasingly like Hull and Boro' - will be strong and there are some good clubs who haven't made it this year along with, in all probability, a resurgent Sheffield United. On the bright side...for us, expectation will be lower and you'll have a Yorkshire derby every other week.

Well hopefully Leeds, Hudds, & the Fowls will all fail in the play offs
Yes the Blunts are coming up this time, and look at Fleetwood as the possible runners-up. We're losing Rotherham though and thats a shame to see how they have fallen apart this season.

[ramAnag]

Well hopefully Leeds, Hudds, & the Fowls will all fail in the play offs
Yes the Blunts are coming up this time, and look at Fleetwood as the possible runners-up. We're losing Rotherham though and thats a shame to see how they have fallen apart this season.

Could end up with Huddersfield, Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield United, you lot, Middlesbrough, Hull (if they still count as Yorkies) and possibly Bradford. The White Rose Championship, sponsored by Tetleys...or maybe we should just take up Rugby League.

[swaledale]

The rot started before before Mel. Impatience and trying to force something that wasn't there has resulted in this. We were moving forward and things started to look bright so in the infinite wisdom Clough was got rid of and McClaren was brought in to accelerate things ...... is it four years on and how many million more we are in a worse position than we were then on all fronts. Unsustainable business model, less than average team, boring football, over expectation of fans and moving backwards as a club. Where we are is pitiful.

I don't deny the first few years under Clough were poor football but he did better than Pardew in the same situation and look what hes done since. Any manager having players ripped out from under them no money to spend and having to wheel and deal we were moving in the right way. There were some signings that didnt work out but the majority proved to be amazing bargains we still benefit from today. Big talking by Sam Rush meant pressure was piled on him quickly and there was two ways to go .... find a scape goat or prove people wrong show some guts and persevere. We were playing great football when the wrong decision was made. I beleive he would have got us up with a fraction of the investment in players but would have struggled up there. Maybe not ... who knows.

Mel has made some bad decision but he inherited the club that had had its heart and soul ripped out shortly before and its a hard task to put that back. Some strange decisions haven't helped but he started on the back foot and I suspect he thought wrongly as a lot of others money could solve it. Its made it worse.

For me taking McClaren back has compounded that. Both Wassell and Clement did much better respectively. I suspect Mel will see what happens at the start of next season and if its not going well we will see another change. This one has to be on the money or I fear we will go the way Charlton did when we started this journey.

OMG a sensible post from Rat!

hard to disagree with that synopsis, except the possibility that Clough would ahve got us promoted and that we were playing good football when he was sacked - we weren't it was better than it had been but that wasn't hard given the previous 4 years of tedium.

For ne IF Clough had done well at the Blades then there would be some argument that he might have succeeded at Derby, I don't see him as any other than a steady championship manager, he will stabalise a club, most likley keep it in the division its in, but generally even with money would not push the club on.

As for mcClaren, dont think he should have been sacked, but he was, Clement for me was doing a good job, he seemed a very competent coach and being sacked with the team in 5th place was a monumental error.