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Thread: Please read this

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    1,991
    Dont think you have to worry about fans no renewing season tickets coz of FU , that will happen anyway because of what's happened on the pitch this season , in all likely hood we will be in the same league next season and I know a hell of a lot of season ticket holders who are not getting them again because of that not FU

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    17,603
    That's a cop out Ian, pure and simple

    No one was expecting promotion first time round, they won't renew because they can't hack the tough times, anyone else who is passionate, who enjoys going, is able to get to games and has the funds to do so will be there next season

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    12,680
    We hope to have a public meeting in place this month open to everyone to introduce the group to you non members.

    We will

    show you the financial disasters at the club in detail
    Talk you through the fans scheme
    Answer as many other questions as possible

    Ill post where and when after we meet as a group first

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    1,991
    No it's not a cop out , all seats beside me are season ticket holders , pub where I drink like wise , a few have been saying for a while now about not renewing because of performances this season that was before FU came on the scene , also sales were always going to fall being in the same league again, you think what you like

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    1,991
    We will see how many are sold , my money is on less than this season

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5,731
    Quote Originally Posted by arab_plumber View Post
    We hope to have a public meeting in place this month open to everyone to introduce the group to you non members.

    We will

    show you the financial disasters at the club in detail
    Talk you through the fans scheme
    Answer as many other questions as possible

    Ill post where and when after we meet as a group first
    Are you providing bar snacks and craft beers?

  7. #27
    5 We want to make it known that in the absence of a clear plan to address our current decline we think a change of direction is needed .

    Good sentiment, but it has to be clear what change of direction you want. "Something different" is not a plan that can act as a catalyst for change.

    6 We hope that by publicising the fact that a core group of fans would like to make change happen, we can help encourage new investment in the club.

    That makes no sense whatsoever. An investor won't be encouraged in by the fact that a fraction of the support are railing against the current chairman. If anything the personal verbal attacks etc would be more likely to make people think twice about getting involved. What is totally lacking here is mutual respect -- ST could and should definitely show the fans more respect but the aggression that is going on in opposition to that only serves to widen the divide (see #4)

    7 We don't have all the answers at present. Change may take many forms, for example greater fan ownership / involvement or an individual taking over from the current board. Our simple aim is to facilitate positive change.

    Fan ownership is an absolute no-no. And, again, the presence of a vocal opposition group is more likely to do harm than good.

    8 What we do want to make clear is that we cannot just sit back and accept recent financial and football performance from the club.


    The plain facts:
    >> ST is going nowhere unless another individual comes forward to take over
    >> No-one has come forward so far.
    >> That person is highly unlikely to be waiting in the wings waiting for the fans to give him permission to act.
    >> If there is a willing new owner then all have to do is phone the Tully and give an interview announcing their intentions. Fans will flock round. Then they potential new owner has massive leverage to make that big price tag ST has put up disappear faster than a Newcastle Jets takeover deal. Presumably said new potential owner will be a savvy business person to have the cash to put up, so will know this. It's not rocket science
    >> In the absence of a new owner coming forward there are two more options:

    Option 1. Force the club into admin by not buying season tickets. Very risky and damaging. Even if it ousted ST it would leave the club vulnerable to takeover by opportunists. Look at what has happened to Rangers -- structurally and financially they are absolutely ravaged by opportunists and hangers on. Option 1 is playing with fire.

    Option 2. Take the diplomatic route and set up a fan group whose stated aim is to start a dialogue, any dialogue with ST to mend the rift between him and the fans. From his perspective, he is boxed in at the moment - stuck owning a club he doesn't want to own, ridiculously poor relations with the fans, which have come from a combination of his past actions and the supporter groups aggressive reactions. The way to unpick that mess is to de-escalate the tension, not ratchet it up. Swallow pride, get the guy talking again, build mutual respect at least to a working level, then try to get things going again.



    The bottom line. The knight in shining armour is a possibility, but currently it looks like a distant one, which means (unless you want to go nuclear with the admin option), we will have ST here for the foreseeable. The role of supporter groups here is to be the bigger man and build dialogue to try and find a way we can all work together to pull this club out of the crap (perhaps along the lines of what Hearts of done.).


    9 We welcome all like minded individuals to join Fans United and seek the improvements we all want!
    Again, if it's like minded individuals who all want to apply pressure and aggression to try and force change, there is zero point in this. You have no power or leverage and will just make ST clam up more.

    If there are like minded fans who are open to a plan of burying the hatchet and building bridges, I'd be happy to be involved with that -- I'd be happy to spearhead it if it came to it.

    And before the usual suspects start foaming at the mouth about this, it is not because I don't want ST out. I think this would be the best option by far. But in the absence of a buyer who would even by the club for a nominal fee (which I think would be more than negotiable) this is the ONLY way forward to get traction any time soon.

    Hearts went from being on their arse to in a reasonable position very quickly simply by having the board set out a plan and getting the fans on board to help with the plan. This could happen at united too, if we could get the board and fans talking and cooperating again. To be clear - I think ST should be showing leadership here and making this happen, but the reality is he isn't. So the only way it can happen is if a fans group does it.
    Last edited by Captain_Tangerine; 12-03-2017 at 09:08 PM. Reason: to remove uncalled for sarcasm...

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    15,637
    Quote Originally Posted by shedka View Post
    1998-2006 then this should be easy, it's United we support not United because of who we play against or what league we are in
    We never got relegated in those years.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    254
    What a load of rubbish. Fans will leave due to the fact the manger is not building a team, there is nothing there for the fans to get excited about. Next season we are going to be in a worse starting position with players. Times are only hard due to Thomson and the manager both not up to the job.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    12,680
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Tangerine View Post
    1 We are a collective of Dundee United fans who care deeply about the club.
    2 We have quietly watched on as a series of financial and football related decisions have been taken which seem to have done nothing but weaken the club's status.
    3 We have seen a very rapid decline going from consistent top 6 / European football to now 3rd in the Championship

    Well are all feeling this pain

    4 We and others have asked for transparency from the Board in terms of what plans are in place to reverse the recent decline. To date we have not had any response.

    You shout louder, he gets quieter. Try diplomacy.

    5 We want to make it known that in the absence of a clear plan to address our current decline we think a change of direction is needed .

    Good sentiment, but it has to be clear what change of direction you want. "Something different" is not a plan that can act as a catalyst for change.

    6 We hope that by publicising the fact that a core group of fans would like to make change happen, we can help encourage new investment in the club.

    That makes no sense whatsoever. An investor won't be encouraged in by the fact that a fraction of the support are railing against the current chairman. If anything the personal verbal attacks etc would be more likely to make people think twice about getting involved. What is totally lacking here is mutual respect -- ST could and should definitely show the fans more respect but the aggression that is going on in opposition to that only serves to widen the divide (see #4)

    7 We don't have all the answers at present. Change may take many forms, for example greater fan ownership / involvement or an individual taking over from the current board. Our simple aim is to facilitate positive change.

    Fan ownership is an absolute no-no. And, again, the presence of a vocal opposition group is more likely to do harm than good.

    8 What we do want to make clear is that we cannot just sit back and accept recent financial and football performance from the club.


    The plain facts:
    >> ST is going nowhere unless another individual comes forward to take over
    >> No-one has come forward so far.
    >> That person is highly unlikely to be waiting in the wings waiting for the fans to give him permission to act.
    >> If there is a willing new owner then all have to do is phone the Tully and give an interview announcing their intentions. Fans will flock round. Then they potential new owner has massive leverage to make that big price tag ST has put up disappear faster than a Newcastle Jets takeover deal. Presumably said new potential owner will be a savvy business person to have the cash to put up, so will know this. It's not rocket science
    >> In the absence of a new owner coming forward there are two more options:

    Option 1. Force the club into admin by not buying season tickets. Very risky and damaging. Even if it ousted ST it would leave the club vulnerable to takeover by opportunists. Look at what has happened to Rangers -- structurally and financially they are absolutely ravaged by opportunists and hangers on. Option 1 is playing with fire.

    Option 2. Take the diplomatic route and set up a fan group whose stated aim is to start a dialogue, any dialogue with ST to mend the rift between him and the fans. From his perspective, he is boxed in at the moment - stuck owning a club he doesn't want to own, ridiculously poor relations with the fans, which have come from a combination of his past actions and the supporter groups aggressive reactions. The way to unpick that mess is to de-escalate the tension, not ratchet it up. Swallow pride, get the guy talking again, build mutual respect at least to a working level, then try to get things going again.



    The bottom line. The knight in shining armour is a possibility, but currently it looks like a distant one, which means (unless you want to go nuclear with the admin option), we will have ST here for the foreseeable. The role of supporter groups here is to be the bigger man and build dialogue to try and find a way we can all work together to pull this club out of the crap (perhaps along the lines of what Hearts of done.).


    9 We welcome all like minded individuals to join Fans United and seek the improvements we all want!
    Again, if it's like minded individuals who all want to apply pressure and aggression to try and force change, there is zero point in this. You have no power or leverage and will just make ST clam up more.

    If there are like minded fans who are open to a plan of burying the hatchet and building bridges, I'd be happy to be involved with that -- I'd be happy to spearhead it if it came to it.

    And before the usual suspects start foaming at the mouth about this, it is not because I don't want ST out. I think this would be the best option by far. But in the absence of a buyer who would even by the club for a nominal fee (which I think would be more than negotiable) this is the ONLY way forward to get traction any time soon.

    Hearts went from being on their arse to in a reasonable position very quickly simply by having the board set out a plan and getting the fans on board to help with the plan. This could happen at united too, if we could get the board and fans talking and cooperating again. To be clear - I think ST should be showing leadership here and making this happen, but the reality is he isn't. So the only way it can happen is if a fans group does it.
    Why should I continue to support a regime of financial mismanagement

    Because I'm a united fan am I duty bound to just accept this neglect at my club and keep handing cash over?

  11. #31
    No, but if you can't replace or oust a corrupt regime (which realistically you can't here - he holds all of the cards), then the only option is to use diplomacy to create a position where you can exert influence over it.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    12,680
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Tangerine View Post
    No, but if you can't replace or oust a corrupt regime (which realistically you can't here - he holds all of the cards), then the only option is to use diplomacy to create a position where you can exert influence over it.
    If a big number of fans withold their money then we hold the cards and Thompson's position will be untenable, , he'll have to sell cheap or walk away

  13. #33
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    612
    Shedka, there will always be a large chunk of fans that will get season tickets regardless, yourself included.
    As things stand I won't be renewing for myself and my young lad unless I see some positive change. If I don't renew then the likelihood is that I will patg as I see fit.
    You talk about the rebuilding like some sort of plan is being undertaken, waiting to be revealed.
    The reality is that we are a shambles, the majority of players (mostly thankfully) will be away at the end of season, and some that have been a disaster will still be here.
    So virtually a full rebuilding job on a lesser budget?

    I wasn't expecting promotion but I was expecting progression, and that simply hasn't happened and there is no imminent signs of it either.
    August will be another new season back at square one (unless we are in admin, then it will be square -10)

    You can keep lambasting loyal fans that have gone for years for having reached their own point of saying 'no more' to the current owner, but more and more will go down this path.

  14. #34
    The price is not the issue. He is holding out a big price tag, but that is just a negotiating position. In reality if anyone came forward they would be in a massively strong position to get the fee down to something relatively small. The buyer's position is really strong because a) they know ST wants to sell b) they know no-one else wants to buy and c) the big one-- they know that fans will apply increasing pressure to ST if he does not make way for the new buyer. The issue though is, unfortunately, that no-one wants to buy.

    What we are looking for is not just someone who is willing to buy, but also someone who is willing to take responsibility for running the club. It is a hell of a responsibility so it has to be someone who has the time and experience to dedicate to it, and preferably with cash to throw in. ST "walking" away does not solve that problem either. the sad (and strange) fact seems to be that there is no one waiting in the wings to replace him.

    And IMO the big danger of witholding money is admin, which creates a desperate situation and opens the door to all sorts of chancers getting involved.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    12,680
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Tangerine View Post
    The price is not the issue. He is holding out a big price tag, but that is just a negotiating position. In reality if anyone came forward they would be in a massively strong position to get the fee down to something relatively small. The buyer's position is really strong because a) they know ST wants to sell b) they know no-one else wants to buy and c) the big one-- they know that fans will apply increasing pressure to ST if he does not make way for the new buyer. The issue though is, unfortunately, that no-one wants to buy.

    What we are looking for is not just someone who is willing to buy, but also someone who is willing to take responsibility for running the club. It is a hell of a responsibility so it has to be someone who has the time and experience to dedicate to it, and preferably with cash to throw in. ST "walking" away does not solve that problem either. the sad (and strange) fact seems to be that there is no one waiting in the wings to replace him.

    And IMO the big danger of witholding money is admin, which creates a desperate situation and opens the door to all sorts of chancers getting involved.
    They're are people out there waiting to come in but it's all about how much they will need to pay, you don't need millions to run our club just a proper business brain that non of our board members have.

    The previous 5 year plan plus the fact we still run like an SPL club tells you all yiu need to know.

    If the fans show solidarity there is only one winner just like when we stood firm over Sevco

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,748
    I'm massively anti ST and have been for some time

    It doesn't matter if there is no immediate replacement, what he is doing is a p*** take, totally unacceptable and should not be tolerated

    Direct protest and organisation to challenge ST in the media is best approach

    Not renewing season ticket though is a total disaster.

    With United for Change we had meetings and people like Mike Watson that could make media impact and put some pressure on

    The idea that not renewing season tickets will help united is madness. It will kill the club.

    People will lose the habit and not come back. The club is the support and particularly those with season tickets. If that diminishes the club diminishes. Horrible idea.

    I'll back protests against ST every week but telling people not to support united by coming to tannadice is a horrible idea

  17. #37
    "They're are people out there waiting to come in but it's all about how much they will need to pay"

    That doesn't make any sense at all. If it is all about how much they want to pay, then you phone ST phone the tully and let the negotiations begin and watch the price drop as the fans pile on the pressure. That is the the time for demos outside the gates etc.

    If you are willing to come in the last thing you do is sit on your hands and hope that the price tag in the window magically falls. Anyone with a proper business brain would know that.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    3,257
    Quote Originally Posted by GingerPetric View Post
    Shedka, there will always be a large chunk of fans that will get season tickets regardless, yourself included.
    As things stand I won't be renewing for myself and my young lad unless I see some positive change. If I don't renew then the likelihood is that I will patg as I see fit.
    You talk about the rebuilding like some sort of plan is being undertaken, waiting to be revealed.
    The reality is that we are a shambles, the majority of players (mostly thankfully) will be away at the end of season, and some that have been a disaster will still be here.
    So virtually a full rebuilding job on a lesser budget?

    I wasn't expecting promotion but I was expecting progression, and that simply hasn't happened and there is no imminent signs of it either.
    August will be another new season back at square one (unless we are in admin, then it will be square -10)

    You can keep lambasting loyal fans that have gone for years for having reached their own point of saying 'no more' to the current owner, but more and more will go down this path.
    That's a fair enough post imo.

    I wasn't entirely impressed with FU's 1st attempt at a protest but I'm willing to give them time and listen to what they've got to say.

    I won't be buying a yellow scarf though.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    17,603
    Quote Originally Posted by ianharab View Post
    No it's not a cop out , all seats beside me are season ticket holders , pub where I drink like wise , a few have been saying for a while now about not renewing because of performances this season that was before FU came on the scene , also sales were always going to fall being in the same league again, you think what you like

    That's my thoughts and your post hasn't changed them, it's a cop out pure and simple

    No one is not renewing around me, they knew we in all likelyhood were going to spend more than one season down, nothing has changed in that respect

    Guys can choose to not renew but then we become weaker and then our stay becomes longer, Hibs fans after the cup win have rallied round for the third season down, our support has been excellent the last couple years, it will remain so despite a potential drop in sales, most will renew as most will be there through thick and thin, if not they will patg, we've endured worse even if it was in the prem, losing most weeks for 8 years between 1998-2006 was far worse than this season

    If we were in the top flight right now with a record like one of the bottom 6 sides we'd be calling for the managers head and would not be enjoying it one bit (save for it being our first season back up of course and even then we'd be seething)

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    17,603
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Tangerine View Post
    5 We want to make it known that in the absence of a clear plan to address our current decline we think a change of direction is needed .

    Good sentiment, but it has to be clear what change of direction you want. "Something different" is not a plan that can act as a catalyst for change.

    6 We hope that by publicising the fact that a core group of fans would like to make change happen, we can help encourage new investment in the club.

    That makes no sense whatsoever. An investor won't be encouraged in by the fact that a fraction of the support are railing against the current chairman. If anything the personal verbal attacks etc would be more likely to make people think twice about getting involved. What is totally lacking here is mutual respect -- ST could and should definitely show the fans more respect but the aggression that is going on in opposition to that only serves to widen the divide (see #4)

    7 We don't have all the answers at present. Change may take many forms, for example greater fan ownership / involvement or an individual taking over from the current board. Our simple aim is to facilitate positive change.

    Fan ownership is an absolute no-no. And, again, the presence of a vocal opposition group is more likely to do harm than good.

    8 What we do want to make clear is that we cannot just sit back and accept recent financial and football performance from the club.


    The plain facts:
    >> ST is going nowhere unless another individual comes forward to take over
    >> No-one has come forward so far.
    >> That person is highly unlikely to be waiting in the wings waiting for the fans to give him permission to act.
    >> If there is a willing new owner then all have to do is phone the Tully and give an interview announcing their intentions. Fans will flock round. Then they potential new owner has massive leverage to make that big price tag ST has put up disappear faster than a Newcastle Jets takeover deal. Presumably said new potential owner will be a savvy business person to have the cash to put up, so will know this. It's not rocket science
    >> In the absence of a new owner coming forward there are two more options:

    Option 1. Force the club into admin by not buying season tickets. Very risky and damaging. Even if it ousted ST it would leave the club vulnerable to takeover by opportunists. Look at what has happened to Rangers -- structurally and financially they are absolutely ravaged by opportunists and hangers on. Option 1 is playing with fire.

    Option 2. Take the diplomatic route and set up a fan group whose stated aim is to start a dialogue, any dialogue with ST to mend the rift between him and the fans. From his perspective, he is boxed in at the moment - stuck owning a club he doesn't want to own, ridiculously poor relations with the fans, which have come from a combination of his past actions and the supporter groups aggressive reactions. The way to unpick that mess is to de-escalate the tension, not ratchet it up. Swallow pride, get the guy talking again, build mutual respect at least to a working level, then try to get things going again.



    The bottom line. The knight in shining armour is a possibility, but currently it looks like a distant one, which means (unless you want to go nuclear with the admin option), we will have ST here for the foreseeable. The role of supporter groups here is to be the bigger man and build dialogue to try and find a way we can all work together to pull this club out of the crap (perhaps along the lines of what Hearts of done.).


    9 We welcome all like minded individuals to join Fans United and seek the improvements we all want!
    Again, if it's like minded individuals who all want to apply pressure and aggression to try and force change, there is zero point in this. You have no power or leverage and will just make ST clam up more.

    If there are like minded fans who are open to a plan of burying the hatchet and building bridges, I'd be happy to be involved with that -- I'd be happy to spearhead it if it came to it.

    And before the usual suspects start foaming at the mouth about this, it is not because I don't want ST out. I think this would be the best option by far. But in the absence of a buyer who would even by the club for a nominal fee (which I think would be more than negotiable) this is the ONLY way forward to get traction any time soon.

    Hearts went from being on their arse to in a reasonable position very quickly simply by having the board set out a plan and getting the fans on board to help with the plan. This could happen at united too, if we could get the board and fans talking and cooperating again. To be clear - I think ST should be showing leadership here and making this happen, but the reality is he isn't. So the only way it can happen is if a fans group does it.


    This is spot on

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