O/T Terrorists

[kempo]

I am not a scholar of Islam like Ellis and my good pal Zilzal but I do find the M and his 9 year old wife story of interest.

First of all,her age would be debateable as there was no registration so she may well have been older as ages would have been guessed or simply chosen.

As I understand it,acceptability for marriage and *** would be associated with the girl's periods starting as she would then be considered a woman.

By our own standards M would be indeed a *****phile but there are problems judging practices in past times by our standards of today.

Obviously I feel it is totally wrong but it may have been the norm in the time of M.

Indeed I have read that the girl in question was due to we'd someone else before M pulled rank.

After saying all that I don't like Islam as a religion as it does seem to promote some unpleasant practices although as said I am far from being an expert.

Ellis is very knowledgeable re Islam but for me his views border on the extreme.

Roly is too far the other way.

Muslims generally should start taking some responsibility for the extremism that breeds from within their religion.

They could stop it but seemingly make little effort to do so preferring to suggest that it's nothing to do with them.

John2/ Kerr would agree with them.

[Ellis_D]

Nice one Ellis, so you are the one who can choose which stuff in holy texts is right and which is wrong plus you are an atheist which says to me that you should be dismissing everything you read in holy texts. Or are you not an atheist after all? Make yer mind up.

Just admit you are a nasty racist who is a member of the EDL or the like. You can deny it till you are blue in the face but all the hallmarks are there. Bit of honesty now.

The good thing is everyone on here k nows you are an idiot so will not be taken in by your propaganda. If I was religious I would thank the lord for that.

Anyway, i'm off out now. So I'll leave you to have a little rant to yourself. I will try to keep my head on my shoulders.

No, I'm not the one who decides who decides which part of holy texts are true and which aren't, religious scholars are. And I haven't read a single one of them try to say that Muhammad never married Aisha.

If you can't accept that simplest of facts, then there's no point in even discussing it with you. I'd love you to start telling Muslims that you don't believe Muhammad actually married Aisha though.

[rolymiller]

EDL Ellis? Britain first perhaps? BNP? I'll get it right eventually. So just admit it. I would say there is no shame in it but there is actually so I wont but you'll get points for honesty.

Off for a nice walk now I'll try to keep clear of those suicide bombers.

[Ellis_D]

I am not a scholar of Islam like Ellis and my good pal Zilzal but I do find the M and his 9 year old wife story of interest.

First of all,her age would be debateable as there was no registration so she may well have been older as ages would have been guessed or simply chosen.

As I understand it,acceptability for marriage and *** would be associated with the girl's periods starting as she would then be considered a woman.

By our own standards M would be indeed a *****phile but there are problems judging practices in past times by our standards of today.

Obviously I feel it is totally wrong but it may have been the norm in the time of M.

Indeed I have read that the girl in question was due to we'd someone else before M pulled rank.

After saying all that I don't like Islam as a religion as it does seem to promote some unpleasant practices although as said I am far from being an expert.

Ellis is very knowledgeable re Islam but for me his views border on the extreme.

Roly is too far the other way.

Muslims generally should start taking some responsibility for the extremism that breeds from within their religion.

They could stop it but seemingly make little effort to do so preferring to suggest that it's nothing to do with them.

John2/ Kerr would agree with them.

Indeed, there are disputes about her age as births were not registered so age was simply guessed at often. But it's not hard to tell whether a girl is around 6 or 10 for example.

Aisha was indeed engaged to someone else before Muhammad, but the fact it took Muhammad three years to consummate his marriage with her would suggest that her engagement to the other would simply have been a promise of future marriage when she was older, probably for money to her father.

Now, in Islam, it is forbidden for children to play with dolls once they area woman. Like lots of cultures, it used to be judged that once a girl started her periods, she was a woman and therefore ready for ***.

The very fact that when she first had *** with Muhammad when she was playing with dolls shows she was still a child.

[millmoormagic]

And just to clear up a little thing about atheism. Being an atheist doesn't mean that I believe every single thing that is written in holy texts is made up. There is a huge difference between believing that Noah built an ark and put 2 of each animal on it, and believing historical data that the vast, vast majority of religious scholars accept to be true.

So, to be clear, you're saying that the vast, vast majority of religious scholars accept that noah's ark story to be untrue, if that's the case, and that's your argument, then surely those same religious scholars, would accept many many other things in their religions not to be true?

If that's the case, and that's your case, then the vast, vast majority of muslims don't belive in the quran you keep quoting, because it simply doesn't resonate with them.......same for christians/hindus etc etc......

[Ellis_D]

So, to be clear, you're saying that the vast, vast majority of religious scholars accept that noah's ark story to be untrue, if that's the case, and that's your argument, then surely those same religious scholars, would accept many many other things in their religions not to be true?

If that's the case, and that's your case, then the vast, vast majority of muslims don't belive in the quran you keep quoting, because it simply doesn't resonate with them.......same for christians/hindus etc etc......

Yes, the vast majority of religious scholars scholars accept that the Noah's Ark story is not real. The vast, vast majority of religous scholars accept that Muhammad married Aisha when she was six and consummated the marriage when she was nine. The difference there is, anyone with a brain knows there would be too many things wrong with the Noah story for it to have happened, and we have evolution too, to prove this. The Muhammad and Aisha story is not only written down in many historical documents, but is also something that is actually realistically possible.

And yes, I agree with you, the vast, vast majority of Muslims DON'T believe in doing certain things in the Qur'an, such as killing the infidel or taking *** slaves. That's because they are good people, and have put their social morals above their religious ones. But it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be doing those things, according to Islam.

[millmoormagic]

And yes, I agree with you, the vast, vast majority of Muslims DON'T believe in doing certain things in the Qur'an, such as killing the infidel or taking *** slaves. That's because they are good people, and have put their social morals above their religious ones. But it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be doing those things, according to Islam.

Finally, you see it as i do, took some time, the only caveat to add is the last three words, "according to Islam", now, wouldn't you agree, that depends on which version of Islam you want to take heed of, you have obviously, as the extremists do, taken the extreme point of view.....

[brassgnat]

EllisD, Greatfire, Turfmoor spirit etc's leader, who definitely isn't a muslim, doesn't have a problem about ***ual violence against women and children. http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/i...rt-of-edl-5148
Also read twitter when he was camped outside Rotherham cop shop making jokes about child *** abuse.

[Ellis_D]

Finally, you see it as i do, took some time, the only caveat to add is the last three words, "according to Islam", now, wouldn't you agree, that depends on which version of Islam you want to take heed of, you have obviously, as the extremists do, taken the extreme point of view.....

There aren't two versions of Islam though. There is only ONE. And that IS the, what we would call, EXTREME version. That is what ALL Muslims should adhere to. That the majority don't just means they aren't proper Muslims.

[Ellis_D]

Just like the majority of Christians nowadays aren't "proper" Christians.