Ot- May calls for election in June.

[swaledale]

Having had to bear witness to any number of crap party leaders/PM's, rA, one is immune to the inability of most of them to show any form of leadership so no, whether it be Jeremy Dustybin or John Terry, so long as they don't want their bus fare home, bring it on and be quick about it!!
As far as promises made in manifestos it's all water under the bridge, mainly bollox, unachievable, pie in the sky 'vote for us and the world is your oyster' crap. If the opposition win it's usually 'we've looked at the books and some of our aims will have to be put on hold until we sort out the economy' then suddenly it's forgotten!!

Thats not strictly true, of course not everything in a manifesto becomes a reality, but many do and thats whats frightening about the Tories, despite may's veneer of moderation and her faux christian caring views (I'm a stong and stable vicars daughter), she is clearly as unstable as the rest, once she is forced to veer away from the rehearsed sound bites!

That the Tries have made it a personality contest, says a lot about their view of the great voting public, whereas as i've said before Corbyn may not be a smart suited polished politician quoting repeated sound bites, but if nothing else he comes across as a genuine person who says what he believes and for me that is more than half the battle! he is prepared to say things that need to be said, to open up debates that others wont open for fear of being seen as different!

At least there is genuine difference between the parties this time around and its a choice I'm happy to vote for, even though the blue donkey that is our current Mp will get elected again, though maybe not if all the rich pensioners in the Derbys Dales revolt!!

[macstheman]

I don't know any of the party leaders personally, rA, so have never thought whether I like them or not!! As potential PM's I certainly don't rate any of the current batch!
Normally, who is leader is not my main criteria to vote otherwise I'd rarely vote at all!! I go for centre to centre-left which means I never vote Tory and certainly won't this time with Mayday! The only times that a leader influenced me would be Blair, Ashdown and Steel.
Can a leader cause me not to vote according to my instincts well deffo with ALL of the current batch achieving that without even trying! Therefore, my choice this time will solely relate to the selfishness of my little punt on the side!!
Either way, I can spend the next few years moaning incessantly about that 'tit'
(whoever is the democratic choice of my fellow sufferers) buggering up the country and if it is Dustybin then at least I can have a few bevvies with my ill gotten gains!

[swaledale]

I kinda agree with you Mac, though i think your unkind calling Corbyn names like that, I prefer a person who is not all about PR representation, which was what Blair was - but your right in this country we dont vote for leaders, we voted for candidates and parties and Labours policies are very centre left and in tune with what most people in the Uk want, IF one believes the various polls on these things!

It would be funny if it was a hung parliament or a labour win and the so called experts and pollsters were wrong AGAIN!!

[Romanis]

The problem with Labour's tax and spend, is that after a good start they get lofty ideas that everything can be paid for and welfarism is the way to go. Blair and Brown start the 1997 win, kept it going for a good 5-6 years, then kapish...

But I accept that a Labour Govt every 8 or 10 years after Tory wins is not a bad thing. However hand on heart I cannot see Corbyn fixing things. And I have very little confidence on him handling security. I would even accept the scrapping of Trident, but how he goes about trying to be the next Chamberlain... sheesh.

[ramAnag]

The problem with Labour's tax and spend, is that after a good start they get lofty ideas that everything can be paid for and welfarism is the way to go. Blair and Brown start the 1997 win, kept it going for a good 5-6 years, then kapish...

But I accept that a Labour Govt every 8 or 10 years after Tory wins is not a bad thing. However hand on heart I cannot see Corbyn fixing things. And I have very little confidence on him handling security. I would even accept the scrapping of Trident, but how he goes about trying to be the next Chamberlain... sheesh.

I have my reservations about Corbyn too...but then I have them for different reasons about May and in any case I've already voted - LibDem - although I'm beginning to think I may have 'jumped the gun'.
Have to say though, the 'kapish' you speak of last time round was hardly Labour's fault...they were doing very well - look at all the hospital and school improvements that took place during those years - before the world's financial crisis caused by dishonest and greedy bankers hit the fan and created a global financial meltdown.

[Romanis]

I have my reservations about Corbyn too...but then I have them for different reasons about May and in any case I've already voted - LibDem - although I'm beginning to think I may have 'jumped the gun'.
Have to say though, the 'kapish' you speak of last time round was hardly Labour's fault...they were doing very well - look at all the hospital and school improvements that took place during those years - before the world's financial crisis caused by dishonest and greedy bankers hit the fan and created a global financial meltdown.

Indeed, but that's partly the fault of Iron Chancellor in not reigning them in. Give either party 8 years, that should be enough.

[ramAnag]

Indeed, but that's partly the fault of Iron Chancellor in not reigning them in. Give either party 8 years, that should be enough.

I think that's the point...eight years isn't enough and only encourages short term economic thinking aimed at re-election within a four and a half year cycle. It's the major problem with democracy...enlightened despotism is an infinitely more effective form of government imo...unfortunately - as power corrupts - guaranteeing the 'enlightened' bit is a near impossibility.

[swaledale]

The problem with Labour's tax and spend, is that after a good start they get lofty ideas that everything can be paid for and welfarism is the way to go. Blair and Brown start the 1997 win, kept it going for a good 5-6 years, then kapish...

But I accept that a Labour Govt every 8 or 10 years after Tory wins is not a bad thing. However hand on heart I cannot see Corbyn fixing things. And I have very little confidence on him handling security. I would even accept the scrapping of Trident, but how he goes about trying to be the next Chamberlain... sheesh.

Not sure why this myth that Labour were responsible for the 2008 world financial crash keeps being touted around, and ironic that it was a right of centre labour government lessening regulation that may have exacerbated matters, (noting of course that it was Brown's decisive action that stopped matters being worse than they could have been) yet people criticise the left for wanting to regulate business and the finance system too tightly and then slag them off for a crash that was down to the very thing most right of centre people want!

But I guess it was ever thus!

Not sure why you feel Corbyn is weak on security, I think a little more thought about where we send troops and who we drop bombs on would not be a bad thing!

As for Trident and a nuclear deterrent, well its in the manifesto for labour to keep and much of what he says about first use is realistic and its also true that in many cases todays terrorist is tomorrows freedom fighter, as ireland, South Africa, kenya, Zimbadwe et al show. Of course Deash are a different proposition but the funds and sponsorship come from somewhere, possibly a country to whom we are Allies and sell lots of arms?!! So no doubt there are ways to reduce the threat or cut off the support?

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure why this myth that Labour were responsible for the 2008 world financial crash keeps being touted around, and ironic that it was a right of centre labour government lessening regulation that may have exacerbated matters, (noting of course that it was Brown's decisive action that stopped matters being worse than they could have been) yet people criticise the left for wanting to regulate business and the finance system too tightly and then slag them off for a crash that was down to the very thing most right of centre people want!

My contention a few times during this and the Brexit discussion is that Labour were responsible for the UK's crash through a) taking their eye off the ball and b) ignoring the advice of others who had been stung in the past. Notable among those offering advice were Sweden, and I was for a while in the presence of some Swedish banking head honchos who, in their unflappable way, expressed sadness that at a senior political level their advice was ignored.

Yes Brown acted quickly, but that's a bit like getting credit for collecting the ball from the back of the net promptly after the opposition just scored. And his arrogance in the years and months preceding the crash take the shine off any kudos earned later, he was clearly living high on the hog and totally unaware of the tsunami over the horizon - check out his last two budget prologues for evidence (and please believe me its not party political point, Spread**** Phil's equivalent prologue was just as arrogant ( and almost self-prophesying)

[KingCharlieGeorge]

My contention a few times during this and the Brexit discussion is that Labour were responsible for the UK's crash

To be frank that's hogwash, especially when you consider that Cameron at the time had been calling Labour policy poor and saying there should have been even less regulation. If it had only been the UK caught out by the WORLD financial crash you would have a point

I accept neoliberal economic dogma was at the root of the crash and that New Labour had continued to follow this right-wing idealised dogma. I also accept that intelligent people should have known that deregulation would encourage law breaking and greedy risk taking; but if Labour had regulated the Murdoch press would have been down on them like a ton of bricks.