O/T Tommy Robinson Speaks About Manchester Terror Attack

[ragingpup]

This thread makes very troubling reading for me. As a dad of a young lass myself, I can feel the horror, repulsion and anger following this terrorist act. And I can understand how frustrating it is that there isn't a visible or identifiable target somewhere they we can target to retaliate, to get a sense of justice. It is horrible.

But for me personally any actions we take should take should be towards stopping, or reducing the possibility of such an action happening again.

The top one for me is to avoid giving the terrorists exactly what they want. ISIS in earlier incarnations published a book called "The Management of Savagery" which acts as a kind of rationale for using brutal terrorist action to provoke actions from other societies that cause their people to isolate and abuse their resident Muslim populations. They know very well that this causes some, very few, but some usually younger, more impressionable, or mentally unstable people who are more prone to such online grooming. As a result, these individuals 'feel isolated' and look for 'ways out', of 'belonging', of rejecting the society that they perceive to be rejecting them. It's a long process, and in no way excuses or justifies in any way their actions for they are absolutely unjustifiable, but it seems to explain why ISIS use such dreadful means of killing. It creates a vicious cycle that ultimately feeds on itself and causes more depths.

So for me, the number one thing is to not give them what they want; not to blame, isolate or abuse our resident Muslim population. Such opinions expressed on here do trouble me, and I swear I understand the reasoning behind them - it's a very human reaction. But I find it hard to swallow because I currently live and work in East London which has a huge ethnic mix. Many of my work mates are devout Muslims but they are just as shocked and angry as the rest of us. Apart from a couple of women wearing religious head dress they work, socialise and are part of the work community as anyone here. I find it hard to accept such generalised talk of 'Muslims being the problem' or 'we should ship out Muslims' simply because of this. We'd be targeting people just as British in behavior and norms as I am. I just can't accept that penalising these colleagues of mine can be an acceptable part of any solution.

I think that working in East London may be different to my hometown. One of the first thing I noticed living here is how integrated the different cultures are. My daughter's school class accomodates about 20 different languages but on the wall this is expressed on a wall poster as a strength, a positive thing about the school. From what I remember, and still see in Rotherham, there is still a tendency to seperate different cultures; they live there, we live here and this comes from the equally from the different cultures? I'm not sure how much this still holds true (please let me know your thoughts, I do feel quite an outsider after 20 years down South)? But it still seems that parts of the borough have their separate communities whereas here, I can see directly what happens when people are kind of 'thrown' together. It felt weird to me at first, I wasn't comfortable at all, but now see it as a positive thing if cultures are to co-exist.

I remember an excellent documentary (I think it was put together by Trevor MacDonald) which went into depth on this problem of social cohesion and the local council (in the North West I think, I'm sure you can google to easily find out about it), had the initiative of ensuring that the children of the different communities went to the same schools, and that in doing this the children will come to accept each other as a natural factor, just as my daughter does with her multi-cultural friends. It seemed a really positive initiative, and I wonder if we shouldn't move in this direction.

Just a few thoughts for what they're worth. I agree with Mr Chuckle that one no-brainer is that if an individual is proven to have left the country for defined terrorist activities, then of course they should not be allowed back. I agree on the logistics anyway.

[harpo88]

It's all hugely difficult to solve. I'd love for there to be a simple solution, but through thousands of years of humanity we've never solved the problems of ignorance and violence, and with travel and communication much easier than ever it makes it even harder, even if intelligence appears to be extremely advanced. I'm interested in policy in general and that's why I wanted to know what you guys think would work - ragingpup seems to think we need some counter-intuitive thinking, acknowledging that it doesn't seem instinctively right and is emotionally difficult. Do others think he's wrong?

In the longer term I'd love to see a better focus on education to tackle these problems more sustainably. We have a fine tradition of thought in this country, of scepticism and free thinking. We should take advantage of that, and ensure all younger people are equipped to think for themselves. I think that means an end to religious schooling perhaps, but that won't solve things by itself.

And this might sound odd but I'd like to see some proper philosophical discussions being held at the top political level, or at least important questions to be addressed. We should be tackling extremism (or maybe literalism is a better word given the weird and horrible stuff in many religious texts) by spreading the free thinking approach. As a general sceptic in all things, I have no idea how a 22 year old can be so certain that he is right in his own superiority that he believes he is justified in killing people he doesn't know. (At a more minor level that goes for all types of arrogance, which I hate). So I want to see our leaders challenging the countries that require their citizens to follow a particular religion - the large majority of which I believe are Islamic countries.

That's my idea for the longer term anyway, what we do here and now I really can't say.

[Lasterman]

Kempo fair point but alas there are those out there who are willing to give their life in the name of Allah, to kill and maim innocent people, yet I don't seem to recall of late anywhere in this country where white C of E people are giving their lives up in the name of god by walking into a mosque and blowing up and killing innocent Muslim men woman and children. Why is that?

I think they would argue that we kill many more innocent men women and children than they do, when we send our armed forces into Muslim countries to fight in wars that don't concern us.

I'm not saying for one minute that its is a valid arguement or any kind of justification, but it's what they would say. It's certainly the case that we don't generally tend to think about those people because their deaths go unreported and unaccounted for, in our media.

[millmoormagic]

I think they would argue that we kill many more innocent men women and children than they do, when we send our armed forces into Muslim countries to fight in wars that don't concern us.

I'm not saying for one minute that its is a valid arguement or any kind of justification, but it's what they would say. It's certainly the case that we don't generally tend to think about those people because their deaths go unreported and unaccounted for, in our media.

Be careful Lasterman, you'll be dubbed an apologist with that kind of statement from some on here...

[brassgnat]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

Funny how a link to Jeremy Corbyn's speak he made in Rotherham was, I suspect, edited out, but Yaxley-Lennons hatred and bile is welcome by the mods.
"If Adolf Hitler flew in today, they'd send a limousine anyway"
What about the muslim health workers and taxi drivers who aided and assisted at the scene, if they all support the bomber.

[Yak]

Who has said all muslims support the bomber?

But don't try and tell me that it's not a problem in the Muslim community.

The acceptance of oh it's only the minority by some is staggering and frightening.

Try telling that to the victims family's.

[Ellis_D]

I am one of those Ellis. I voted Labour since i was 18 best part of 25 years .But last time and this time i wont. I cannot justify voting for a party whos leader will weaken our country even more .And thereto with his mps forgot about all those kids in Rochdale and my town. I am at a loss of what can be done about ISLAM. Shut down the mosques never gunna happen do many people complaining about religious rights . Target people on the terrorist watch list is a start but then we have the human rights crew piping up . Till we get free from Europe and get some of our laws back nothing will come of this and another bombing will happen . It is really difficult to stop a bombing like this happening . Fa cup final and kell brooks fight at the weekend .Till the Royal family get hit or somebody with real importance it will be same drivel from people like the mayor of London come out with "its part of living in a big city" 100,000 Muslims where asked in a survey "would you tell on another Muslim if he has isis OR radical intentions" 66% said no because its in the Quran not to .How do you stop this when there getting brain washed by there own teachings?

This scumbag was known as a potential terrorist. EVERY single person on this list should be rounded up, and either jailed indefinitely or deported, simple. B0llocks to their human rights. What about the human rights of all the people who died? What about the human rights of every innocent, decent man, woman and child in this country who deserves to live a free, safe life. I would actually string them up, never mind lock them up, but locking them up or deporting them will be a start.

And yes, 66% of Muslims said they would not grass up a fellow Muslim who supports ISIS. Because it's there in their facking book of evil. I don't want to hear people on here LYING anymore saying it's a minority - it's NOT a minority. If there was a civil war or a world war, almost EVERY Muslim would fight on their side, as it would be a holy jihad. It would be their religious responsibility.

It's like the liberals are so naive they think that if the day comes when Muslims take over, they will let them live and be free because they supported them. NO, they will still MAKE you convert to Islam, or die like the rest of us.

[Ellis_D]

Kempo fair point but alas there are those out there who are willing to give their life in the name of Allah, to kill and maim innocent people, yet I don't seem to recall of late anywhere in this country where white C of E people are giving their lives up in the name of god by walking into a mosque and blowing up and killing innocent Muslim men woman and children. Why is that?

The apologists on here - and I don't mean Kempo - would have been PRAYING it was a white, Christian who carried out this attack. So desperate to be able to say, 'See it wasn't a Muslim, it was a nasty, white, British Christian'.

[Rev72]

More attacks to come..over 4000 Jihadists been monitored in the UK alone.

Why are we monitoring them???

We waiting till its too late like the Manchester attack???

Get everyone of those 4000 scumbags rounded up NOW and send them packing or just shoot the f*ckers.

Surely enough is enough now?

[Ellis_D]

Millers own Barry Chuckle was absolutely right when he shared "If someone leaves Britain to join a terrorist group then they should never be allowed back into the United Kingdom. Strip them of their citizenship and keep them out!" on his Facebook but got called a fascist by the usual leftie idiots. How can anyone disagree with that?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...haring-7604585

Only absolute morons who don't live in the real world could possibly disagree with that post. Absolute idiocy, and the second most dangerous people in the country, after the terrorists, are the people who make excuses for them, lie that they aren't real Muslims or call anyone racist who dares to make sensible comments like that.

I'd challenge anyone and everyone to give me a legitimate reason why we should let someone back into the country who has gone abroad to fight for a terrorist group.