O/T Tommy Robinson Speaks About Manchester Terror Attack

[millmoormagic]

Some good posts with some good ideas on here. Especially the splendidly named Neville Davitt with a far more eloquent summation of what we all should NOT do. Please everybody, read his post carefully.

I posted yesterday a few points from my own experience of living in East London and having local schools that take and function very well with a very mixed cultural population including Muslims. We have close friends of some of these kid's parents and three of these are committed Muslims, not old school and all of them are perfectly happy that their kids, and we parents mix and share our cultures. It's no ideal were living, its just what you do in a multi cultural community. For the kids, there are no barriers, the schools encourage celebration of all the community's religions and just get on with the education.

So for me, I can see the results of a mixed community that has already progressed down the road into multi racial cohesion. And I have obvious comparative experience of my upbringing and family and friends in Rotherham. Like many areas there is still a separation between the communities and despite efforts from the local council the communities remain entrenched. Trevor MacDonald's documentary "What Muslim's Really Think" caused a lot of controversy when it was aired from people who didn't agree with the programme research data that found that especially the elders of the Muslim community were against integration and were very protective of their culture and customs including what I consider to be negative ones on individual liberty. However, he also found that there was a stark contrast between the views of the community elders and the younger people who were found to be much more willing to integrate into the wider culture and rejected many of the beliefs of the elders. I think that it is essential to focus NOW on improving integration programmes in our communities so that these 'boundaries' are blurred and eventually overcome by the younger generations.

MacDonald's documentary also showed the work of this school in Oldham that has striven to create a school community deliberately from the two very segregated White and Pakistani communities.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/m...david-goodhart

This is still in early days but studies seem to indicate that the school community is prospering, its an Ofsted Good school and there are unusually low levels of racially based bullying. From my own kid's point of view, this multi racial community is just the way the world is to her. There simply is no issue of different cultures holding mysterious beliefs and custom. It's not perfect but what I'm getting at is that I am seeing the end result of what this school in Oldham is striving for, and it works. Kids just adapt and take on board what they see, be it from a school that places them shoulder to shoulder with mixed race schoolmates and encourages exploration and tolerance of differences, or from a cultural leader or parent that feels that their way of life is superior to others and does not want the two to mix.

So what to do? Practical initiatives I'd like to see are a strong government agenda to move away from segregated to mixed schools and for councils in areas where there are entrenched cultures to be empowered to create good schools and direct their populations to come from even representations of these different cultures. For me, it should not be optional, parents should not have the option of shielding their kids away from a diverse society that their kids have to eventually move into. Most certainly we should not allow public funds to help create faith schools of any kind that effectively cut children off from their world.

I know that this is not an immediate solution that people are looking for, that would 'feel' like it provides justice for the dreadful, inexcusable atrocities that these lunatics do but it is something that we could do now.

Great post fella.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Ofsted report for that school

Personal development, behaviour and welfare - requires improvement
Outcomes for pupils- requires improvement
Quality of teaching - requires improvement
Overall effectiveness- inadequate

The kids suffering again in a failed social experiment of forced integration

[great_fire]

Multiculturalism might work but not with Islam, Islam is about conquest not co-existence.

[ragingpup]

Ofsted report for that school

Personal development, behaviour and welfare - requires improvement
Outcomes for pupils- requires improvement
Quality of teaching - requires improvement
Overall effectiveness- inadequate

The kids suffering again in a failed social experiment of forced integration

Grist,

I see that you carefully edited the last point on "Overall Effectiveness at the last Inspection......Inadequate" in "Overall Effectiveness......Inadequate". Why would you do that? My observations are trying to make suggestions for a positive way forward, to find solutions. I've no problem with people finding constructive criticisms of my thoughts but that editing looks a bit sinister.

Reading up on the latest Ofsted report just finds that the quality systems are at fault, that the school haven't put in good quality checks on teaching and systems used and that the current head received GOOD for leadership and management and ofsted acknowledge that the head is instigated quality systems that they expect will result in good outcomes in all areas. I've been a teacher for 20 years and am a senior leader, I know enough to know that the problems ofsted identified are nothing to do with the kids there and point out that "Pupils’ spiritual, moral, social and cultural development is promoted effectively", "Pupils’ conduct in and around the school is orderly, polite and respectful. Pupils feel safe at school" and "At the time of this inspection pupils were very engaged in a mock European Union referendum to support their understanding of democratic values in modern Britain. Year 10 pupils have also attended challenging workshops to secure their understanding of the risks of extremism".

Look around Rotherham, London, everywhere, you will find schools that "require improvement" - are they all "failed social experiments of forced integration"?

I find that your statement, closely followed by Mr Great Fire who says "Multiculturalism might work but not with Islam, Islam is about conquest not co-existence" really worrying. "Islam is about conquest not co-existence" No it isn't! Have you ever spoke to any Muslims about Islam? As I've said, some are my colleagues and friends, and my daughter is going to school everyday with children being raised as practicing Muslims; they and their parents engage with their school communities in just the same way as we do, and several will be attending my kids upcoming birthday party in a couple of weeks. In what way are these Muslims wanting conquest? The birthday cake?

I despair that educated people like yourselves can take an observation/idea/thought and somehow manage to twist it into "kids suffering again in failed social experiment" and particularly "Islam is about conquest not co-existence" simply as it seems to indicate a hostility to the very idea that we might all, different cultures, get along with each other. It indicates that this aim is something that you are not even willing to work towards. Is that how you really feel?

[rolymiller]

I'll second that MMM great post from raging pup put in a calm way from someone who has obviously directly experienced multi culturism so he knows what he is talking about. Great fire, how can you say integration wont work? what is your evidence? You just pluck your views from the air methinks. Even if you sincerely believe that multiculturism doesnt work surely it makes sense to try to make it work.

[millmoormagic]

Grist once again caught out doing what he does best, posting untruthful sheite.

[lbj]

What about a group hug !

[Ellis_D]

This article is well worth a read.

It's great that you post all that about Tommy, Neville, without actually knowing what you are talking about, safe for copying and pasting something you have read written by someone with an agenda, but I will come back to that.

I actually agree with some of the things the article is suggesting. But it conveniently only discusses what the ISIS leadership want. When some bellend in Manchester/Belgium/Germany/France commits an act of terrorism and they haven't even spoken to anyone involved with ISIS, I don't think they are trying to divide us, I think they are trying to kill as many of us as possible.

Ah, you will say, but that is BECAUSE ISIS through clever propaganda have manipulated that person(s) into believing what they say is true, using that person as a pawn. That still doesn't bring back any dead people. And it doesn't alter the fact that the only reason ISIS have got their warped world view is down to Islam in the first place. The same Islam that every Muslim follows, despite the different interpretations.

The article also conveniently neglects to even mention other Islamic extremist organisations. There have been many before ISIS and I daresay there will be many more after. And despite the fact you people like to conveniently forget about all these other organisations nowadays, and just focus on ISIS, unfortunately they are still here. So whilst it's very easy for you people to pretend that ISIS and terrorism only exist to try to divide us, and make moderate Muslims join us or them, no inbetween, it's just not true. Islamic terrorism exists for many different reasons all across the globe, and whichever way the agenda driven left try to make excuses, lie or otherwise lead us away from what is happening, Islamic terrorism is Islamic terrorism.

As for other parts of the article, yes, unfortunately, there are idiots in our country who just want to hate. Bigots who just don't like brown people or Muslims because they are brown, or because they come from somewhere else. I don't see ANYONE like that who has posted on this thread. But the fact that people like you try to put everyone who speaks out against Islam or Islamic extremists in the same category as actually real racists is a dangerous game.

And that brings me back to Tommy. I have challenged leftists with an agenda on here several times in the past to actually show me a post where I have been racist and no-one has ever been able to. The same with Tommy Robinson, show me ONE single statement he has ever made that is racist? You won't be able to, and neither you nor any of the other lefties on here will even address this point. You will just ignore it as you always do, but then the next time his name comes up, you will just spout the same old Guardian and Mirror based rubbish that he is an extremist, a bigot, a racist.

It's quite simple, Neville. You posted about how many times he has been in trouble with the law. Because of him speaking out against Islamism, he is denounced as a racist and is a marked man by the police.... Yet how many times has he been arrested for killing a Muslim? Or raping a Muslim? Or physically attacking a Muslim? Erm, it's none. Okay, so he's not as bad as Islamic terrorists or *****phile grooming gangs (despite millmoortragic stating several times that people like him and me are the biggest danger to this country. To anyone living in the real world, just digest that for a minute......... Yes, people like me and Tommy Robinson, because we dare to criticise Islam are a bigger danger to this country than Muslim terrorists and Muslim *****phile grooming gangs.... Let that sink in for how twisted these Leftists are.....).

But surely, being the MASSIVE racist that he is, he must have been done for verbally abusing a Muslim on the streets, yes? Erm, no.

Well, okay then, he is ALL OVER social media with his opinions, videos, posts everywhere.... But yet he has never been convicted of - or even arrested under suspicion of - ANY racist remark. Never. So if he was this far right racist, constantly posting on Twitter, constantly in the media spotlight, constantly harassed and attacked by the fascist far left, constantly targeted by the police, surely they would arrest him if he made racist statements? Exactly. All a lie from the far left with an agenda, facilitated by the lying media.

So to his actual offences he has been convicted of. I don't speak from a point of ignorance, just repeating something I saw on a leftist website, I actually know the background to it all.

And yes, one thing you could accuse Tommy Robinson of being was a thug. He used to be, in the eyes of a lot of people. Although, I think most blokes have had a scrap in their lives at some point, but anyway, I digress.......

[Ellis_D]

- 2003 Convicted for drunken assault of an off-duty police officer who intervened to stop a domestic incident between Robinson and his then girlfriend. Served a 12-month prison sentence.

--- Only part of the story, but why would you take the time to investigate when you can just paint him out to be the kind of guy who gets drunk and punches police officers? The full story is, they had been out for his girlfriend's birthday, and p1ssed up on the way home, they were arguing - nothing more, but drunken raised voices. A bloke appeared from nowhere and told Tommy to do one and said he would walk Tommy's missus home. Tommy told him to p1ss off as it was none of his business. Tommy turned to walk after his girlfriend, and this other bloke rugby tackled him from behind, taking Tommy to the floor, leaving him with a cut on his head. The police officer in court agreed that this is how it all happened. Tommy then fought back and got the better of him, but kicked him once when he was on the floor. The police officer can't have been badly hurt because he jumped straight up and told Tommy he was screwed now as he was a police officer.

Of course, Tommy got done for this in court, and the police officer got nothing. The judge decided it was all self defence up until the kick on the floor. But that is always the case, if it had been a normal bloke they both would have got done for fighting. Again though, the full story sounds completely different to 'Tommy drunkenly assaulted an off duty police officer'.

- 2010, Involved in a fight between supporters of Luton Town and Newport County in Luton. Robinson reportedly led the group of Luton fans, and played an integral part in starting a 100-man brawl, during which he chanted "EDL till I die".
- July 2011, Convicted of having used "threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour" on the night of the incident. He was given a 12-month community rehabilitation order and a three-year ban from attending football matches. Also sentenced to 150 hours' unpaid work, and ordered to pay £650 in costs

--- I've copied and pasted this into Google and can see that all you have done is copied and pasted it from some leftist website. You purposely miss out key parts about this. Firstly, the part about him being involved in this '100 man brawl'. This 100 man brawl that was so vicious that only one arrest was made. Let's see, who might that have been? Hmmmm. Yes that's right, Tommy Robinson. And this battle was so ferocious, he must have been charged with violent disorder, maybe? Assault? Affray? Erm, no. He was arrested for an unrelated incident by a police officer who was after him for that. Now, by Tommy's own admission, he has had a fair few scraps, but nothing here. he was just singing and shouting. In his interview, no mention was made of this '100 man brawl'. He was bailed for eight weeks after which his charge was suddenly changed. He was now being charged with using threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour and accused of leading Luton's hooligans into a fight. But he never threw ONE punch during this '100 man brawl'. Which kind of explains why Tommy was never charged with any violent offences. It's amazing, he was the ringleader of this mass brawl that yielded NO arrests (his initial arrest was nothing to do with this 'fight'), no CCTV footage. In the age of mobile phones, and videos being posted online, it's incredible that not ONE video of this has emerged online. The only thing we have to go on is the word of two coppers. Tommy was found guilty at the Magistrates Court, but decided to appeal.

When the appeal went to Crown Court, one of the coppers said he saw Robinson throw a punch and that he was directing the violence. The judge reminded the police officer that none of this was in his original statement so he had to withdraw it. Basically, the police lied; he was fabricating evidence to try to get Robinson into deeper trouble. More police persecution. It was even reported in The Guardian that the police officer was lying on oath! Yet the judge still refused to overturn the decision and Tommy was given a three year football banning order

Once again, the story in short is completely misrepresentative of what really happened. But hey, Neville, don't let the facts get in the way of a good witch-hunt, eh?.

- September 2011, Arrested after an EDL demonstration in Tower Hamlets for breach of bail conditions

--- This was because part of his bail conditions stopped him from being allowed to attend EDL meetings. But ask yourself why? He was on bail for being involved in a 'one hundred man brawl (with no punches thrown)' at a football match. So why did his bail conditions not allow him to attend an EDL meeting, when the two things are nothing to do with each other? Simply because of the persecution and victimisation Tommy suffers from the police. Doing anything they could to disrupt his life, and attend a perfectly democratic rally.

- September 2011, Convicted of common assault after head-butting a fellow EDL member at a rally in Blackburn in April that year. Given a 12-week jail term, suspended for 12 months.

--- It's very interesting, though not surprising, but also extremely hypocritical that leftists should use this one as a stick to beat Tommy with. I'm quite certain though, that most of you who copy and paste and repeat this story don't know the background to it. Yes, he was convicted for assaulting an EDL member. But he wasn't a proper EDL member. Him, and several others had been kicked out of the EDL for being actual, real, far right Nazis. Yeah, I know, you leftists just love to paint the EDL and Tommy Robinson as far right Nazis, but nothing could be further from the truth. Tommy fought constantly to keep Nazis out of the EDL. They have a Jewish Division, a Sikh Division, a Hindu Division, a Gay and Lesbian Division, they even have some Muslim members. For the EDL, at its core, opposes only militant Islam, radical Islam. Not ALL Muslims. And how can it be a Nazi group with all those divisions? Why would Jews be in it??? It just takes a little using of your brain. Anyway, this idiot had been going around doing Nazi salutes and telling everyone he was going to beat Tommy up after the rally. Tommy saw him, and went and headbutted him, and told him Nazis weren't welcome. Just go on Google and Youtube and look up REAL far right groups, they DESPISE Tommy Robinson and the EDL. How can anyone who is far right support Jews, fly Israel flags, stand shoulder to shoulder with black people, brown people, gay people? It's just a lie put out there by people with an agenda who want to pretend that Islam is the religion of peace and don't want anyone speaking out against it.

Tommy doesn't just receive death threats from Muslim extremists, who also threaten to rape and kill his wife and mum, and behead and chop up his children, he also receives death threats from real far right extremists. Watch this video, this is what a REAL far right group, the RVF thinks of Tommy Robinson and the EDL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seYq...ctr=1495720328

- October 2012, Arrested and held on the charge of having entered the U.S. illegally. Robinson pleaded guilty at Southwark Crown Court to using someone else's passport. Sentenced in January to 10 months imprisonment.

--- Stupidity, yes. He was not allowed to enter the USA due to his criminal record, so borrowed a passport from his friend, Andrew McMaster. He stayed there for one night only and then travelled back on his own passport. Anyone would say that ten months imprisonment for that offence is harsh, but anyway......

[Ellis_D]

- 28 November 2012, Charged with three counts of conspiracy to commit fraud by misrepresentation in relation to a mortgage application. Robinson pleaded guilty to two charges in November 2013. On 23 January 2014 he was sentenced to 18 months in prison.

--- This one was the biggest stitch up of all time. If you weren't so biased in your view and had actually done some research, you would see how Tommy is a target for the police. The police had targeted Tommy Robinson for years. They scrutinised every penny he had ever earned, every bill, invoice and receipt he'd ever issued or collected. They swarmed all over his family. They even got a warrant to go through his mum and dad's bank accounts - they did the same to anyone he had ever done business with. And after years of trying, they got nowhere, until this mortgage stitch up. He had enormous pressure put upon him by targeting not just him but his whole family and his friends, knowing that this could see him could under further stress from them.

How about the time he and Kevin Carroll were walking on a charity march for a little girl with cancer, and Kev Carroll was assaulted ON CAMERA, IN FRONT of the police by two violent, fascist, leftist thugs? And what did the police do? They arrested Tommy Robinson and Kevin Carroll! You don't believe me? Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEI0TKkX9_o

If Tommy had have punched one of those guys, he would absolutely have been arrested for assault. But one bloke pushed Tommy into the wall, and the other bloke punched Kev in the stomach right in front of the police! Two arrests made, the victims of the assault! Take your blinkers off and even surely you and your other leftie mates on here will see how unfair that all is?

What about the time he was in a pub with his children watching a game of football, and police came in and forced him out of the pub and out of the area, bullying him and upsetting his young children? The staff at the pub confirmed on camera that Tommy had done nothing wrong, nor had anyone else Tommy was with, but because the police don't like Tommy, they decided to treat him unfairly anyway. At the end of the video, the last few minutes you can hear his children crying, obviously distressed. The police tried to say it was because they were moving Luton fans out of the area, yet NO other Luton fans were removed from the pub, only Tommy and his group. It is persecution. Here is the video for that one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVOGpdAz7Lk

Then more recently, he went to France for Euro 2016. He had a St. George's flag that had "Fack ISIS" written on it. Now I am sure all of you will agree the only Muslims that flag targets are ISIS? Yes? And everyone including good/decent/moderate Muslims agree that ISIS are scum? Yes? It never said fack Muslims, or even Islam, Allah or Muhammad. Just fack ISIS. A clear insult to a terrorist organisation, no-one else. What did Bedfordshire Police do upon him returning to England? They arrested him for inciting racial hatred! IF that flag insulted any Muslims, they MUST be terrorists themselves or terrorist sympathisers. But I don't think it DID offend any normal/moderate Muslims. I think it was just another case of the police targeting Tommy and treating him unfairly.

From Wikipedia: Bedfordshire Police gave him a football banning order on his return; his lawyer Alison Gurden accused the police of a "campaign of harassment" and said that they had equated the proscribed terrorist group with all Muslims in their action.[68] In September, a judge at Luton Magistrates' Court dismissed the case, calling the prosecution's evidence "vague" and "cagey".[69]

So the judge dismissed that, as it was ridiculous. But it still shows the level of harassment Tommy has received from the police. He is constantly persecuted.


That is just a few of the many incidents that highlight how Tommy is targeted by the police for anything and everything. And this fraud case is simply shocking. Tommy did nothing wrong. He just lent his brother-in-law some money to get a mortgage. His brother-in-law was the one who lied on the application. He lent his brother-in-law £20,000, his brother-in-law overstated his earnings on his mortgage application and his brother-in-law made £30,000 when he sold the house and then paid Tommy back. That was it. The police decided to blackmail Tommy; simply, either plead guilty to the charges, or his wife would also be arrested and charged. Despite it having nothing to do with her. But the police knew Tommy couldn't risk that. Along with Tommy himself, he has received numerous threats, people saying they will murder his wife and children. Now, bearing in mind what we know about Muslim extremists, it's fairly obvious that the threats are real. Indeed, after an EDL rally once, the police stopped a car and found a group of Muslim extremists with all kinds of weapons including firearms - they were late, but they had gone to murder Tommy. Tommy has also passed on numerous death threats to the police, but they have NEVER made one single arrest. Now why would that be? A. Because they hate Tommy Robinson, and actually want him to be killed. And B. Because much like SYP refusing for years to take action against the Rotherham grooming gangs, the police don't want to be accused of being racist, so they allow Muslim extremists to make daily threats to Tommy and his family. He has printed out over 300 death threats to him on his Twitter account and handed it over to the police. How many arrests were made? 0. Despite Tommy doing the police's job for them by hunting lots of them down and finding out their names and addresses. This is people making all sorts of threats to Tommy rape and murder of him, his wife, his children and his mum. Compare that to the idiot who threatened to rape MP Stella Creasy on Twitter after she supported the idea of having Jane Austen put on the new £10 note. Would he have actually done it? Who knows, but he was jailed for 18 weeks. Yet the police refused to arrest ANYONE who threatened to rape and kill Tommy's mum and wife, chop up his children and kill Tommy. Radical, extremists, you know, from the religion of peace, I'm sure they aren't a serious threat!

Now, bearing all that in mind, be honest, what would you do? Tommy has managed to keep his family hidden, check the internet, you won't find any photos of his wife or children. But if his wife had to go to court for this 'mortgage fraud' she would be photographed and would become a target. Tommy has had to move house several times, and the police have issued him with six different Osman - specific and credible death threats uncovered by the police or security services. He has been assaulted numerous times by Muslims, and not ONE of those assailants has ever faced a criminal prosecution. What does that tell you about the persecution and victimisation of Tommy Robinson? As the title of his fantastic book says, he really is an Enemy of the State. So yes, of course, he pleaded guilty to these trumped up charges in order to protect his family.

So much more to say, but I do realise this is already three very long posts, so I'll leave it there.