"Known to security services before the attack."

[MichiganWolf]

Yes, apparently he did but I guess we will never truly know if he did or not and yes, he may be proud to be British or Welsh. Where is the misguided ideology bit though?
Are you basing your statement on heresay?

He drove a van into a crowd of Muslims during the month of Ramadan and shouting things relating to the death of all Muslims. He obviously disliked Muslims and thought himself as better than them, otherwise why commit the crime? I wouldn't call it heresay. I call it logic.

[Newcy Wolf]

He drove a van into a crowd of Muslims during the month of Ramadan and shouting things relating to the death of all Muslims. He obviously disliked Muslims and thought himself as better than them, otherwise why commit the crime? I wouldn't call it heresay. I call it logic.

Yet apparently his neighbours back home were Muslim and both families had an amicable relationship.

So where's the logic in that?

[MichiganWolf]

Yet apparently his neighbours back home were Muslim and both families had an amicable relationship.

So where's the logic in that?

Nobody suspected John Wayne Gacy capable of murdering and raping little boys either.

It's not that hard to put on a pleasant face for neighbors even if you despise them. I can't stand my uncle but at family gatherings I exchange pleasantries just fine.

[Newcy Wolf]

Nobody suspected John Wayne Gacy capable of murdering and raping little boys either.

It's not that hard to put on a pleasant face for neighbors even if you despise them. I can't stand my uncle but at family gatherings I exchange pleasantries just fine.

Bloody hell, I read a book on Gacy, I've got a morbid interest in serial killers but keep that to yourself.

Fair play mich, it's good to have a debate without low life feeling the need to spoil it.

[theplater]

It was an attack based on misguided ideology. How is that dissimilar to religious radicals? And again, just because he was not part of an organization or group of people does not disqualify it from terrorism. Timothy McVeigh acted with one partner and neither were part of some official movement and he was a terrorist.

Mich, I'm not talking about what the dictionary describes as 'terrorism'. If you want to go down down that road then every act of evil can be described as 'terrorism'! 'Terrorism', in today's mad world is fanatical religious lunatics turning themselves into flying mince and taking out as many innocent civilians as they can! That's it in a nutshell! You can be as 'Politically Correct' as you want but let's not beat about the bush here. Murder, and what this nutcracker did was just that, is murder, for whatever reason, and what we class as 'terrorism' is not what as is defined in Oxford's finest! That is my opinion. I'm sticking with it whether you like it or not, and that is my last word on it!

[Newcy Wolf]

With the most respect I can offer, we as a nation, have suffered terrorism at a premium.

We have suffered bombs under cars in high streets, bombs in vans with no discrimination as to who they kill, bombs in shopping centres, bombs at pubs, bombs at political party's HQ, bombs at Royal occasions, bombs at armed forces bases, the list goes on.

Hey, and that lot is over generations BEFORE the term "Jihad" was ever mentioned.

The USA can learn a lot from a country like ours that knows about terrorism. In contrast, it's pretty new to them.

[MichiganWolf]

Mich, I'm not talking about what the dictionary describes as 'terrorism'. If you want to go down down that road then every act of evil can be described as 'terrorism'! 'Terrorism', in today's mad world is fanatical religious lunatics turning themselves into flying mince and taking out as many innocent civilians as they can! That's it in a nutshell! You can be as 'Politically Correct' as you want but let's not beat about the bush here. Murder, and what this nutcracker did was just that, is murder, for whatever reason, and what we class as 'terrorism' is not what as is defined in Oxford's finest! That is my opinion. I'm sticking with it whether you like it or not, and that is my last word on it!

I try to be objective when viewing things. It has nothing to do with being politically correct. Restricting terrorism to only religious acts is just a subjective decision based on personal biases. Here, it seems that not calling Osborne's attack is an attempt to lessen his crime when compared to other terrorist attacks. It was a hate crime. It is no better or worse than other terrorist attacks home and abroad (on merit and intent, maybe not in scale).

[MichiganWolf]

Bloody hell, I read a book on Gacy, I've got a morbid interest in serial killers but keep that to yourself.

Fair play mich, it's good to have a debate without low life feeling the need to spoil it.

If you're into graphic novels, Alan Moore's From Hell is a great fictional take on Jack the Ripper.

[Newcy Wolf]

If you're into graphic novels, Alan Moore's From Hell is a great fictional take on Jack the Ripper.

Is that the book that the Depp film of the same name was based on?

I can remember him portraying DI Abberline as an opium smoker in seedy drug dens.

I might look that one up, I enjoyed the film.

*Jack the Ripper useless fact*

One of his victims, Catherine Eddowes, was a Wolverhampton girl who went to London seeking work but ended up as a prostitute in Whitechapel.

(Expect sandwell remarks about Wolverhampton women in general)

[MichiganWolf]

Is that the book that the Depp film of the same name was based on?

I can remember him portraying DI Abberline as an opium smoker in seedy drug dens.

I might look that one up, I enjoyed the film.

*Jack the Ripper useless fact*

One of his victims, Catherine Eddowes, was a Wolverhampton girl who went to London seeking work but ended up as a prostitute in Whitechapel.

(Expect sandwell remarks about Wolverhampton women in general)

Yep. The movie doesn't do the graphic novel justice.