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Thread: OT another terrorist attack.

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turfmoorspirit View Post
    I phuckin hate cricket.. Throwing a ball at 3 sticks while somone wants to hit it with a bigger stick ! Hey ho , whatever floats your boat.. Back on topic Ellis is not outnumbered.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw1BbAVc0L4
    Yes back to the subject anyway, who is that bloke Simon Harris in the video ?
    I watched and listened to his comments about the loathsome Piers Morgan and the Tommy Robinson interview (I think you sent the link in for it actually), and he seems to speak sense. Depending on which side of this argument people choose to support that is.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    If a potential Muslim football supporter took a look on here, do you they'd feel comfortable about going down to NYS? I don't.

    Even without posts from the likes of your fan, Turfmoor, the association between football hooliganism and far right politics are well known.
    And theirin lies the truth of real brainwashing, so predictably brainwashed. I'll say it here and now, that the link between the football hooligan 'culture' and right wing politics isnt a surprise, it's been manufactured, by scum of the highest order, it's been going on for countless years, it's been cultivated, for as long as i can remember. Whether you like it or not, a whole group of mentally weak, easily influenced, white working class blokes have succombed to this right wing bull shyte that has no place in a decent, fair and caring society.

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    Nobody is forced to eat Halal. You either put it into your mouth or you don't.

    The fact is that most people neither no know care whether they are eating Halal. It looks the same, tastes the same and has the same nutritional value. You don't get bits of prayer caught between your teeth.

    Given the above, it makes sense for Subway and the like to use Halal. It prevents the need to have two different supply chains with the expense that goes with that.

    Not every Subway is Halal, but those which are can clearly be identified. They use Halal turkey ham that tastes just fine as far as I'm concerned. If you don't want that, there's no need to get upset or feel dictated to - just don't buy it. If you want a pork product, I'd go to Greggs or any number of retailers that supply it.
    "Given the above, it makes sense for Subway and the like to use Halal. It prevents the need to have two different supply chains with the expense that goes with that." Wow. Just wow. It makes sense for us a country to stop doing things our way and do it in another way to pander to 5% of the population. And that makes sense to you.

    Well, that's only the start. You won't agree, of course. You and millmoor and roly and the like will make all the excuses in the world, all the denials, and throw all the accusations.

    But if we are already pandering to just 5% of the population with food, what's next? Sharia law will be on its way and everything that brings with it.

    "If you don't want that, there's no need to get upset or feel dictated to - just don't buy it." So what about schools and hospitals? We ARE being dictated to if we want to eat a meal in a hospital or if we want our children to eat a hot meal in schools.

    You take the attitude that people shouldn't care if it's halal or not. Well then Muslims shouldn't care if it's halal or not then. Oh, but it's their religion. Bending over backwards to meet the needs of a minority, and fack the indigenous majority. But then, why did they move to a country that is non-Muslim, knowing they would have to eat non-halal meat?

    And in the 60's when we had less than 2% of the country Muslim, what did they eat then? Presumably they were alright eating the same meat as the rest of us then? But once that percentage of Muslims rise in the country, suddenly we have to start serving halal only meat in schools and hospitals and many restaurants.

    As I said, several of you will have your excuses, denials, accusations, but things like this are the first of many, many concessions.

    One day you will see, or your children will. But by that time it will be too late. We will have a civil war or live under Sharia Law, or both. What a great future for this country because of people so desperate to bend over backwards to make allowances for the minority rather than the minority conforming with the majority.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    If a potential Muslim football supporter took a look on here, do you think they'd feel comfortable about going down to NYS? I don't.

    Even without posts from the likes of your fan, Turfmoor, the association between football hooliganism and far right politics are well known.
    Some clubs in Europe have far left influences. Some clubs in Britain have many Asian supporters.

    I was, actually, with my last sentence accepting that Muslims probably wouldn't feel welcome. But not because of anything written on here. I have heard many racist songs down the years though, not at matches, but in pubs and sometimes down the street at away games. I think we all know which people are responsible for that, and I'd be surprised if any of them post on here tbh.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    Nobody is forced to eat Halal. You either put it into your mouth or you don't.

    The fact is that most people neither no know care whether they are eating Halal. It looks the same, tastes the same and has the same nutritional value. You don't get bits of prayer caught between your teeth.

    Given the above, it makes sense for Subway and the like to use Halal. It prevents the need to have two different supply chains with the expense that goes with that.

    Not every Subway is Halal, but those which are can clearly be identified. They use Halal turkey ham that tastes just fine as far as I'm concerned. If you don't want that, there's no need to get upset or feel dictated to - just don't buy it. If you want a pork product, I'd go to Greggs or any number of retailers that supply it.

    Do you feel the same about Kosher
    & how do you identify a Subway using Halal meat?
    Last edited by Exiletyke; 26-06-2017 at 02:47 AM. Reason: Halal product stuck in my craw

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellis_D View Post
    How is that 'playing it that way'?

    I am surprised at you tbh, because I thought you were one of the more reasonable lefties on here, but this is a quite disgraceful comparison.

    Neither I - nor anyone else - has ever used the word dirty to describe Muslims and if we did, there would be uproar on here and rightly so.
    Lol. I'm assuming that you are joking and haven't missed the satire?

    Surely??!

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellis_D View Post
    "Given the above, it makes sense for Subway and the like to use Halal. It prevents the need to have two different supply chains with the expense that goes with that." Wow. Just wow. It makes sense for us a country to stop doing things our way and do it in another way to pander to 5% of the population. And that makes sense to you.

    Well, that's only the start. You won't agree, of course. You and millmoor and roly and the like will make all the excuses in the world, all the denials, and throw all the accusations.

    But if we are already pandering to just 5% of the population with food, what's next? Sharia law will be on its way and everything that brings with it.

    "If you don't want that, there's no need to get upset or feel dictated to - just don't buy it." So what about schools and hospitals? We ARE being dictated to if we want to eat a meal in a hospital or if we want our children to eat a hot meal in schools.

    You take the attitude that people shouldn't care if it's halal or not. Well then Muslims shouldn't care if it's halal or not then. Oh, but it's their religion. Bending over backwards to meet the needs of a minority, and fack the indigenous majority. But then, why did they move to a country that is non-Muslim, knowing they would have to eat non-halal meat?

    And in the 60's when we had less than 2% of the country Muslim, what did they eat then? Presumably they were alright eating the same meat as the rest of us then? But once that percentage of Muslims rise in the country, suddenly we have to start serving halal only meat in schools and hospitals and many restaurants.

    As I said, several of you will have your excuses, denials, accusations, but things like this are the first of many, many concessions.

    One day you will see, or your children will. But by that time it will be too late. We will have a civil war or live under Sharia Law, or both. What a great future for this country because of people so desperate to bend over backwards to make allowances for the minority rather than the minority conforming with the majority.

    This post got me thinking of how we all have different views of what we consider acceptable..

    I work as a school leader as I've mentioned and also liaise with the Head at my daughter's school. In both these cases, Kerr is right in highlighting that we WILLINGLY, we WANT TO, we are not UNDER PRESSURE to do so, serve hal al meat because it makes no difference to the rest of the kids whether someone has said a few words to the 'meat' before it was killed.

    However, as a vegan and someone who is very keen on animal rights, I am very careful to check that both schools are buying from a supplier that slaughters meat against ethical regulations. Around 90% do so and is no different in process to a conventional slaughter house. Although this is horrible for the vegan part of me, it is how schools work and it is easier for us to supply all as hal al than from 2 separate suppliers. But I stress that this is not through pressure or force from Muslim communities; it is out of RESPECT for their customs.

    However, I do have a problem with the other 10% of of meat product that is being killed and supplied for hal al that is not certified by RSPCA and therefore animals are not stunned. I am no expert on this, the legality but I resent this practice and I would certainly add pressure to the legal effort to make all meat supplied to the same 'humane' criteria. So, yes I would draw a line with some religious practices. And I would say that if any individual wants meat to be slaughtered in a way that is less acceptable to our certified humane procedures, I would not welcome that in my community.

    So I guess it can be complicated and differ between the values of different individuals. From what you are saying though Ellis, it sounds like you resent hal al being supplied to public simply because it is not something that we have a tradition of doing it. And that you stand by this belief even though it makes absolutely no cost difference or inconvenience to me or you or anyone?? Forgive me but that sounds quite vindictive and indicates a hostility to the culture?

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellis_D View Post
    "Given the above, it makes sense for Subway and the like to use Halal. It prevents the need to have two different supply chains with the expense that goes with that." Wow. Just wow. It makes sense for us a country to stop doing things our way and do it in another way to pander to 5% of the population. And that makes sense to you.

    Well, that's only the start. You won't agree, of course. You and millmoor and roly and the like will make all the excuses in the world, all the denials, and throw all the accusations.

    But if we are already pandering to just 5% of the population with food, what's next? Sharia law will be on its way and everything that brings with it.

    "If you don't want that, there's no need to get upset or feel dictated to - just don't buy it." So what about schools and hospitals? We ARE being dictated to if we want to eat a meal in a hospital or if we want our children to eat a hot meal in schools.

    You take the attitude that people shouldn't care if it's halal or not. Well then Muslims shouldn't care if it's halal or not then. Oh, but it's their religion. Bending over backwards to meet the needs of a minority, and fack the indigenous majority. But then, why did they move to a country that is non-Muslim, knowing they would have to eat non-halal meat?

    And in the 60's when we had less than 2% of the country Muslim, what did they eat then? Presumably they were alright eating the same meat as the rest of us then? But once that percentage of Muslims rise in the country, suddenly we have to start serving halal only meat in schools and hospitals and many restaurants.

    As I said, several of you will have your excuses, denials, accusations, but things like this are the first of many, many concessions.

    One day you will see, or your children will. But by that time it will be too late. We will have a civil war or live under Sharia Law, or both. What a great future for this country because of people so desperate to bend over backwards to make allowances for the minority rather than the minority conforming with the majority.
    What do you mean by 'doing things our way'. If you are talking about the pre-stunning of animals that are to be slaughtered, that only became a legal requirement in 1933 and from the outset there were exemptions for Halal and Kosher slaughter. With that being the case, I'd argue that the only way that 'our way' comes into it is that the legislation reflects the the tradition of tolerance that this country thankfully has. In any event pre-stunning with non-invasive methods is increasingly accepted as Halal.

    I would imagine that Halal food has been available in the UK for as long as there has been a market for it, just as Kosher has been available for the much smaller British Jewish community.

    Subway franchisees have a choice as to whether to operate as a Halal outlet or not. One assumes that is their own preferences and an assessment of their likely market that determines their decision. If they go Halal, they put a sign in their window and, in my experience, have a compliance certificate on display. In making their choice, franchisees are not being dictated to or bending over, they are exercising a business choice.

    I haven't said that people shouldn't care about Halal. I was making the point that they generally don't - unless it suits their view of the world to do so, that is. If a person in a hospital that uses Halal meat doesn't want to eat it, they could act like grown ups, ask for an alternative or take the vegetarian option. Ditto schools.

    Sharia law is available in the UK for divorce and dispute resolution, just as Beth Din courts are available for Jews. Neither you nor anyone else has to use them, you have a choice.

    The bottom line is that whilst you may feel that Subway franchisees choosing to operate in a Halal fashion is the start of a descent into civil war, I don't.

    You seem to have very little faith in Western culture. Personally, I think that it is traditional Islamic culture that will fail to survive the encounter. Perhaps ironically, one of the gateways to radicalisation is the identity crisis that many young Muslims feel as they are pulled in two different directions.
    Last edited by KerrAvon; 26-06-2017 at 03:18 PM. Reason: typos 2

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    Lol. I'm assuming that you are joking and haven't missed the satire?

    Surely??!
    Of course I noticed the satire, I know that was the whole point you were making. But what I am saying is, if someone else on here was making a point and jokingly used the phrase 'dirty Muslim' people would go mental, regardless of the point. Double standards.

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    This post got me thinking of how we all have different views of what we consider acceptable..

    I work as a school leader as I've mentioned and also liaise with the Head at my daughter's school. In both these cases, Kerr is right in highlighting that we WILLINGLY, we WANT TO, we are not UNDER PRESSURE to do so, serve hal al meat because it makes no difference to the rest of the kids whether someone has said a few words to the 'meat' before it was killed.

    However, as a vegan and someone who is very keen on animal rights, I am very careful to check that both schools are buying from a supplier that slaughters meat against ethical regulations. Around 90% do so and is no different in process to a conventional slaughter house. Although this is horrible for the vegan part of me, it is how schools work and it is easier for us to supply all as hal al than from 2 separate suppliers. But I stress that this is not through pressure or force from Muslim communities; it is out of RESPECT for their customs.

    However, I do have a problem with the other 10% of of meat product that is being killed and supplied for hal al that is not certified by RSPCA and therefore animals are not stunned. I am no expert on this, the legality but I resent this practice and I would certainly add pressure to the legal effort to make all meat supplied to the same 'humane' criteria. So, yes I would draw a line with some religious practices. And I would say that if any individual wants meat to be slaughtered in a way that is less acceptable to our certified humane procedures, I would not welcome that in my community.

    So I guess it can be complicated and differ between the values of different individuals. From what you are saying though Ellis, it sounds like you resent hal al being supplied to public simply because it is not something that we have a tradition of doing it. And that you stand by this belief even though it makes absolutely no cost difference or inconvenience to me or you or anyone?? Forgive me but that sounds quite vindictive and indicates a hostility to the culture?
    No, my problem is the exact same issue as yours. Strictly speaking, the meat is NOT halal if it is has been stunned before slaughter. So the fact that 90% of the meat sold as halal actually isn't fully halal shows that there ARE a considerable number of Muslims willing to compromise in a non-Muslim land.

    This though means that we are allowing this barbaric slaughter to appease an even smaller percentage of people.

    This has nothing to do with being vindictive and everything to do with us living in the 21st century and trying to be as humane as possible when killing animals for food. We should NOT be changing our ways to act so barbarically in order to appease a small percentage of people.

    The kind of people who insist that animals are killed in this way are probably the same kind of extremists who follow the evil passages in the Qur'an.

    I have no interest one way or another if people want to bless an animal before it is killed. I'm not going to choke on some Arabic words.

    However, by the same token, if we are being sensitive to the feelings of Muslim when they need to have religious words spoken before slaughtering an animal, we should also be sensitive to Christians and other groups if they don't want that to happen.

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