O/T New retirement age....

[Brin]

Quite laughable all this "evil Tories" stuff.

Adjustment of the retirement age is purely a mathematical calculation, an attempt to balance the books.

It would be a very irresponsible government that made no changes.

People are living longer and don't forget we're regularly adding extra population due to immigration.

And what will most of the immigrants have paid into taxes and National insurance contributions by the time they reach retirement age?

Andy's right in that he along with others may well not get to reach 68 so all their contributions will be to support an over run country of immigrants and their millions of off springs who breed like rats

[kempo]

Although I am not a fan mikemiller makes the point the government seem to miss completely.

We are living longer well that's just ended but up to now say but the majority of people over 60 suffer significant ill health and much of ill health would prevent work.

We will save on pensions but much more will be paid in sickness benefits with working class pre pensioners struggling the most.

Prices will increase to cover costs to employers and small businesses will be damaged.

How many 67 year olds can be shinning up scaffolding and so on and so on.

We then have the reduction in jobs for young people.

It's another disaster waiting to happen and another can kicked down the road by a government that seem incapable of making a sensible decision.

Because you are not dead does not equate to being fit to work down a coal mine!...well you know what I mean.

[crookadile]

And what will most of the immigrants have paid into taxes and National insurance contributions by the time they reach retirement age?

Andy's right in that he along with others may well not get to reach 68 so all their contributions will be to support an over run country of immigrants and their millions of off springs who breed like rats

Spot on Brin. A lot of immigrants won't pay a penny because they are here to live off benefits.
Also with regards to not reaching pension age that's probably the governments plan. Die before you get to pension age and the government don't have to pay out. This will mean more cash for the benefit migrants that don't pay in to the system.
There are also plans to raise the pension age to 70 meaning even more will not reach it.

[Lasterman]

So why wasn't this in the Tory manifesto, if it sn't controversial? Feeble Tory excuse (HI, Kempo!)

So you're happy to have 68 year old teachers, firefighters, hospital workers etc. ? Just because people may be living longer (certainly the rich are!) it doesn't mean that they will be capable of working longer to the same standard - in fact, they almost definitely WON'T be able to do so in nearly all cases

I think you're lumping people together there who aren't comparable. My understanding is that active firefighters retire very young anyway, and that's not about to change. I don't see any issue with a 68 year old teacher though. Do you?

Isn't all of this a bit of a red herring though? What is the state pension...£150 a week or something? So you get to the age of 66, having worked for the last 50 years and had the opportunity to save and invest in a private pension - and you're going to have to delay your retirement because the government aren't going to give you £8,000 this year? That's about £150 for every year you've worked.

Surely one years state pension shouldn't be a make or break issue for someone who has a job and wants to retire, should it?

[fivetide]

Remember, working is taxes and NI. NI is what is meant to pay for your healthcare etc.

Now, the problem is that when it was set up, it just kicked in, there was no set up period. You aren't paying for your pension, you are paying for the next generation and so on down the line.

This means that there simply isn't enough people to pay for the bigger, follwoing generation. Consider tax on drinks, smoking ban, etc, the way the NHS absolutely must keep everyone alive for as long as possible. We must have an inquiry if a 90 year old dies from a stroke and then maybe blame it on his salt intake rather than the fact he was just old.

One day there will be an approved government way to die.

For now, the age has to rise. If it was still 60 then we'd have a bigger issue. More people than ever are going to university so they don't start work until after age 20. As said, we are pushing the age to 100 so you could be retired and claiming a pension for as long as you are working. That just isn't possible. By any government.

And for once kempo makes a decent point. What quality of life are people having? It is great living to 100 but what if you spend 20 years in a nappy in a nursing home?

At some point we need a balance. We need less nannying and people to take responsiblity for themselves. Tub of lard? Eat less and move more. Forget all the millions being thrown at fatties telling them a triple fried cheeseburger isn't good for them. Same with anti smoking. Government used to make a surplus out of tabs. I don't smoke, but if you do, it's yer own fault. No one can say they start that now without knowing what might happen so if they want to start, fine but if they want to stop, they should do that themselves too. Etc etc.

Save a blooming fortune.

[kempo]

Surely I have made more than one decent point..

I made several a couple of years ago when I helped you out with the anatomy and physiology of the biliary tract system.

[millmoormagic]

I think you're lumping people together there who aren't comparable. My understanding is that active firefighters retire very young anyway, and that's not about to change. I don't see any issue with a 68 year old teacher though. Do you?

Isn't all of this a bit of a red herring though? What is the state pension...£150 a week or something? So you get to the age of 66, having worked for the last 50 years and had the opportunity to save and invest in a private pension - and you're going to have to delay your retirement because the government aren't going to give you £8,000 this year? That's about £150 for every year you've worked.

Surely one years state pension shouldn't be a make or break issue for someone who has a job and wants to retire, should it?

All well and good, but you're assuming that everyone who has worked all their life has had a private pension, indeed, has been in a job that actually pays good enough for them to put into a private pension at all. So, the many hundreds of thousnds who really are relying on the state pension then it really is make or break.

I know things will change eventually with people having to get a workplace pension now, which is a good thing in my view, but it will take a couple of generations to filter through.

For 5T, i kind of agree with you about how we nanny our way around obesity and smoking etc, but the cost of obesity and smoking on the health service is absolutely massive, so we can't really just let these things ride can we.

Just a final note to those jumping all over the immigrant issue, i'll just point out, again, that immigrants give a NETT CONTRIBUTION to British society, please try to leave your prejudices in the box until you know what you're talking about.

[Lasterman]

Maybe I should have, but I don't have much sympathy for anyone who reaches the age of 66 after a lifetime of working and has nothing to show for it. My experience is that those people have made lifestyle choices along the way that have put themselves in that position, rather than being a victim of circumstances. That's fine of course, and you might argue that they were relying on the goalposts staying in position, but relying on the state to keep you going in old age isn't a strategy that's ever resonated with me.

[millmoormagic]

Maybe I should have, but I don't have much sympathy for anyone who reaches the age of 66 after a lifetime of working and has nothing to show for it. My experience is that those people have made lifestyle choices along the way that have put themselves in that position, rather than being a victim of circumstances. That's fine of course, and you might argue that they were relying on the goalposts staying in position, but relying on the state to keep you going in old age isn't a strategy that's ever resonated with me.

I do agree up to a point, absolutely i can see where you're coming from, but there are many, many people who haven't had the choice, a real choice, those on absolutely shyte wages who are living hand to mouth where a pension is the last thing they have to worry about. Personally, like yourself i've always joined the company pension wherever i've worked, for me it's a no brainer, but i've got a mate that when we were having a discussion about old age and pensions, (he hasn't got a pension) said to me that the chances are in old age he'd be sat in the same care home as me in a nappy regardless of what pensions i had.....food for thought, i suppose!

[fivetide]

For 5T, i kind of agree with you about how we nanny our way around obesity and smoking etc, but the cost of obesity and smoking on the health service is absolutely massive, so we can't really just let these things ride can we.

Just a final note to those jumping all over the immigrant issue, i'll just point out, again, that immigrants give a NETT CONTRIBUTION to British society, please try to leave your prejudices in the box until you know what you're talking about.

As i said, a few years ago, smokers actually made a net contribution to the health service. So high is the tax. On that basis, the government should be encouraging it! That's tongue in cheek of course but the point is that with tubbies especially, the responsiblity has to lay with them not the health service. So yes, tax lard and then if people want to eat it, they will have paid for the rest of us to have a better health service.

I know this isn't ever going to happen and i totally agree on the issue of private pensions but we simply cannoty pay for people to sit around doing nothing for 30 or 40 years.

kempo, i see you managed to make one decent point for a change and rather than engage in an adult conversation have immediately gone back into your schoolboy sniping. Very sad for one who professes to be so clever and just goes to show that one swallow really does not make a summer. If you'd like to come sit at the big boy table and have a proper dicsussion you are welcome to try.