O/T New retirement age....

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Another thing to remember regarding immigrants coming in to do low paid work, they rarely join a union, further weakening the position of the traditional labour voting working man.

[millmoormagic]

Another thing to remember regarding immigrants coming in to do low paid work, they rarely join a union, further weakening the position of the traditional labour voting working man.

Ah, the immigrant's fault again then....

[millmoormagic]

I'm sure some companies operate the way you describe, millmoormagic, but I don't think they represent the vast majority of businesses in the UK (or anywhere else in the western world for that matter.) Having worked at fairly senior levels in some major global corporations, I would say that most are driven by the need to improve shareholder return and the biggest shareholders are the occupational pension schemes... who's main aim in life is to fund the pensions of....the UK workforce...pensions which supplement the state program for huge numbers of people. I agree that earnings for senior executives are way too high and need to be restructured so that they aren't driven so much by short term profit targets (board level decisions on executive remuneration really have been way too cosy and need a total overhaul) but in my experience the individual manipulation you describe is not that common.

I subscribe to a lot of what you say on here and wouldn't ever try to belittle your well articulated view of the world, but I think occasionally the ideology moves a bit beyond the reality of what is actually going on - especially in large, publicly accountable companies.

What i'm saying is the trend is going that way, i see it first hand. I know i can be cynical sometimes, and i agree totally with you regarding shareholders and companies needing to make a profit, absolutely i do, but i think companies should be much more ethically driven rather than profit driven, again, i'm not saying they shouldn't make a profit, far from it. I think the pendulem has swung massively the way of the 'other side', i'm after a fair world, that's all.

I will have a think though CT and try to think a bit deeper before jumping in too soon, i appreciate your input!

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Ah, the immigrant's fault again then....

Ah the penny drops at last

Took a long time

[millmoormagic]

Ah the penny drops at last

Took a long time

No fella, i'm a very pragmatic, forward thinking bloke, my penny dropped a long tme ago, you're still clinging on to the ten bob note.....

[CTMilller]

What i'm saying is the trend is going that way, i see it first hand. I know i can be cynical sometimes, and i agree totally with you regarding shareholders and companies needing to make a profit, absolutely i do, but i think companies should be much more ethically driven rather than profit driven, again, i'm not saying they shouldn't make a profit, far from it. I think the pendulem has swung massively the way of the 'other side', i'm after a fair world, that's all.

I will have a think though CT and try to think a bit deeper before jumping in too soon, i appreciate your input!

A fair response, millmoormagic. We come from different sides of the table, so to speak, but we agree on quite a bit, I think. I follow these millersmad debates with great interest but don't tend to comment too much. There is often much food for thought. Your observations and comments on the miners' strike for example really helped to give me a more balanced view of what was happening (especially since I wasn't living in UK at the time.)

[brassgnat]

Another thing to remember regarding immigrants coming in to do low paid work, they rarely join a union, further weakening the position of the traditional labour voting working man.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...on-living-wage

Won't join unions, happy to work for nowt? .......and yet all sponging on the dole at the same time!!
Even some on here, who I often agree pedal the myths about migrant workers. I'm a White British born man, who works for the minimum wage in learning disabilities care in the private sector. Firstly, legally, apart from bringing in under 24s , they can't undercut my wages,. Secondly, Am I undercutting equivalent jobs in the public sector wages?
Plus the 1% pay cap, low minimum wage etc, has not been impose by immigrants.

[John2]

And what will most of the immigrants have paid into taxes and National insurance contributions by the time they reach retirement age?

Andy's right in that he along with others may well not get to reach 68 so all their contributions will be to support an over run country of immigrants and their millions of off springs who breed like rats

You're a bitter old man for some reason, quite unpleasant likening immigrants to rats.

The average immigrant is in their 20s and far more likely to have a university education than the average Brit - whether they arrive from inside the EU or outside.

Arriving in their 20s means we get the benefit of them paying taxes for the majority of their work life... but we didn't have to pay a penny for their education and upbringing.

The simple facts are immigration are a huge boost to the economy for these reasons when you look at the actual facts.

Poorly educated people make all sorts of ignorant assumptions based on how their world "feels", but not based on objective reality.

[crashbang]

Gives you longer to save for a decent pension.
Those that work and are just relying on state pension are going to be struggling i think.

[millmoormagic]

Gives you longer to save for a decent pension.
Those that work and are just relying on state pension are going to be struggling i think.

I agree, but with the workplace pensions coming into force right now, more people will be paying into their own pensions, it will however take some time for this to become established.