so if rafa did his job how much would he have

[NorthernRock]

I think his achievements at Valencia and Liverpool are being vastly underrated tbh.

Mourinho and Guardiola managed it in Spain with endless budgets and stupid amounts of talent on tap. I think you're actually describing those 2 when you talk about walking into successful teams and spending money tbh, I guarantee Benitez's net spend will be a lot lower than theirs and his record stands up respectably against arguably 2 of the best managers in the world, he's not doing bad then...

Winning the league in Spain was an incredible achievement and his tactics played a massive part in that, in a sense he was a pioneer at the time with his formation and style that triumphed over the big 2 and in the process he out-thought his rivals with his footballing brain ... That should not be under-estimated neither.

Clearly a man who knows his **** and has the credentials and resume to prove it, if people actually cared to base their opinion on facts and looked into the mans career before making delusional and/or inaccurate statements.

I've actually had the same opinion of him at times- his boring style, the fact he needs to spend money and has had big jobs... but when you actually delve deeper and consider the way he's built teams, his ethos and how they've brought success then it certainly makes you look at the man in a differently light and that has nothing to do with the fact that he now manages us, its purely down to looking deeper into his career instead of using CONTRIVED "facts" and claims to paint the picture.

[Andy1981_2]

I think his achievements at Valencia and Liverpool are being vastly underrated tbh.

Mourinho and Guardiola managed it in Spain with endless budgets and stupid amounts of talent on tap. I think you're actually describing those 2 when you talk about walking into successful teams and spending money tbh, I guarantee Benitez's net spend will be a lot lower than theirs and his record stands up respectably against arguably 2 of the best managers in the world, he's not doing bad then...

Winning the league in Spain was an incredible achievement and his tactics played a massive part in that, in a sense he was a pioneer at the time with his formation and style that triumphed over the big 2 and in the process he out-thought his rivals with his footballing brain ... That should not be under-estimated neither.

Clearly a man who knows his **** and has the credentials and resume to prove it, if people actually cared to base their opinion on facts and looked into the mans career before making delusional and/or inaccurate statements.

I've actually had the same opinion of him at times- his boring style, the fact he needs to spend money and has had big jobs... but when you actually delve deeper and consider the way he's built teams, his ethos and how they've brought success then it certainly makes you look at the man in a differently light and that has nothing to do with the fact that he now manages us, its purely down to looking deeper into his career instead of using CONTRIVED "facts" and claims to paint the picture.

I've set out the facts previously, but they're ignored. How you can say Valencia were already a 'winning' club when they hadn't won the thing Rafa won with them for 30 years is beyond me. They won the league twice in three years after Rafa took over. Could be a total coincidence like, but if Rafa is as bad as pboro makes out you'd expect them to go backward, not do something they hadn't managed to do in two decades (twice). But not even a grudging respect can be drawn out of him. We really do live in a post-truth world.

[ghostrider]

I think what we have to look at, in all sensibility, is what he's achieved since taking over a sinking ship.

When Rafa came, he came to run a ship that had hardly any bottom in it, let alone a hole.
Unfortunately he didn't have enough time to quite close the huge gaping hole, yet refloated the sunken ship the very next season to have us back on top with only bilge pumps to operate our floating ship.

[ex_pat_magpie]

Well put Ghost. It sums it up perfectly.

[NorthernRock]

I've set out the facts previously, but they're ignored. How you can say Valencia were already a 'winning' club when they hadn't won the thing Rafa won with them for 30 years is beyond me. They won the league twice in three years after Rafa took over. Could be a total coincidence like, but if Rafa is as bad as pboro makes out you'd expect them to go backward, not do something they hadn't managed to do in two decades (twice). But not even a grudging respect can be drawn out of him. We really do live in a post-truth world.

Exactly.

And the last part is a sad fact of today's society mate.

[Jammy89]

I think what we have to look at, in all sensibility, is what he's achieved since taking over a sinking ship.

When Rafa came, he came to run a ship that had hardly any bottom in it, let alone a hole.
Unfortunately he didn't have enough time to quite close the huge gaping hole, yet refloated the sunken ship the very next season to have us back on top with only bilge pumps to operate our floating ship.

Very nautical

But a good way of putting it.