Bigots in Football

[ramAnag]

Faith isn't a matter of choice, IMO, like which football team you support isn't, again IMO.

To (loosely) quote John Cleese...'that's not an argument...it's just a series of contradictions'.
In all seriousness...I don't follow.

[Rattea]

Faith isn't a matter of choice, IMO, like which football team you support isn't, again IMO.

So if your Christian, Jewis, Muslim, blah blah, blah ..... isn't a choice?

That sounds like a radicalisation statement to me?

How do you justify that?

[Andy_Faber]

So if your Christian, Jewis, Muslim, blah blah, blah ..... isn't a choice?

That sounds like a radicalisation statement to me?

How do you justify that?

Really daft thing to say Ratts, I thought you'd soaked up all there was to know on religion on your recent visits to the Holy Land, clearly you need to get back into those scriptures

[triz]

I don't think either is, but there's a nuance here that I think's important, although it doesn't relate to footy-fan behaviour. Being a particular colour, faith, ***uality etc is not a choice (I'm sure some clever dick would say the latter two are choices, but as a Christian who fancies women I'll argue those with anyone who fancies it). But there's 'being' something and there's 'flaunting' it. LGBT folk seem in particular seem to think they have carte blanche to ram their ***uality down people's throats, and IMV such an action invites a reaction. There's a lot of double standards around this issue, with religion as usual getting the sh*t end of the stick - If your response to a Jehova's witness knocking at your door would be **** off! why is it not allowed to be the same to someone pushing their gayness at you?

I can say I've ever had anyone ***uality pushed down my throat. But even if a gay person did, I wouldn't feel like it gave me carte blanche to give "a reaction" to an innocent group. I know if I was gay and minding my own business and went to the football and experienced homophobia I wouldn't want to come again,and that's plain wrong. And if the excuse given was yours id feel it was a cop out and grossly unfair.

[Andy_Faber]

I can say I've ever had anyone ***uality pushed down my throat. But even if a gay person did, I wouldn't feel like it gave me carte blanche to give "a reaction" to an innocent group. I know if I was gay and minding my own business and went to the football and experienced homophobia I wouldn't want to come again,and that's plain wrong. And if the excuse given was yours id feel it was a cop out and grossly unfair.

I wasn't suggesting that individual experiences should apply to a whole group

[triz]

I wasn't suggesting that individual experiences should apply to a whole group

My apologies then. I thought your comment was in reference to the leicester brighton homophobia.

[Rattea]

Again triz I think its bigotry trying to be justified. If someone speaks to you about Jesus ... Bigotry, someone speaks to you about Islam .... bigotry, they have a different ***ual orientation .... bigotry.

My best friend is gay and she say "why should she have to tell people shes gay straight people don't" .... but when she doesn't tell people and they find out they get funny about it. Its no win.

Really daft thing to say Ratts, I thought you'd soaked up all there was to know on religion on your recent visits to the Holy Land, clearly you need to get back into those scriptures

Massive assumption by you! I have lots of friends of lots of religions and an 'interested' in the what and why ..... BUT ..... will I ever be joining the my invisible friends better than your invisible friend charade ..... no! And why my discussions and experiences have shown me is most people are looking for something rather than it finds them or something spectacular happens.

I respect what anyone wants to believe in and let them get on with it but to me but I am firmly nonreligious. This you will find is the opposite to being a bigot. The fact that I am interested in what they believe and why probably why I don't feel threatened or scared by any of it.

Faith by definition is something you put your trust in knowingly!

[Andy_Faber]

No, in general terms. the Leicester thing is pathetic especially as its almost for sure that everyone chanting will know someone who's gay

[ramAnag]

No, in general terms. the Leicester thing is pathetic especially as its almost for sure that everyone chanting will know someone who's gay

Don't agree...the Leicester (anti-Brighton) thing is 'pathetic' because it's just an example of ignorant bigotry and prejudice. The fact that those people may know someone who is gay is irrelevant.
Back to the 'choice' thing...I guess the only people who excercise 'choice' in a ***ual context are those who are 'bi-***ual'...the rest of us 'are what we are' so to speak. I'm not sure if that's naive or not...but I can't see how 'faith isn't a matter of choice'. Surely if it isn't that's the result of, if not 'radicalisation', then certainly, indoctrination. Are you seriously saying Andy, that you have no choice in believing what you believe and acting accordingly?

[AdiSalisbury]

Would it be fair to suggest that the Leicester chants were aimed at what they believed to be a largely hetro***ual audience? Would they behave differently if they were watching a Pride parade during half time?

Is it bigotry?
Is it ignorance that it may actually hurt someone genuinely of that ***uality?
...a combination of both?

Does someone have the right to offend, or be offended? Does being at a football match make a difference?