media, pundits, ex players accusing Rafa of negativity

[pboromag]

But we are not talking about players Rafa brought to the club. We are talking about players who came before Rafa's time and need to be moved on to free up both valuable wages and valuable squad places.

so 3 of the 4 or 5 players he wants gone arent rafas

and the ones he has signed this seson he doesnt play or werent his finds

hanley lazzar to name a couple
brought them and hardly played them anyway

wasting ashlys money

[pboromag]

Rafa said in a statement yesterday that he brought in some players to help get us out of the Championship but need to be moved on because they are not Prem quality.
It is obvious that Hanley,Lazaar and Gamez were just brought in as cover because of the often 3 games a week in the Championship.
Hopefully they will be gone by next week.

but he would have agreed wages etc and why not play development players instead of burdening the club with high wages

[ex_pat_magpie]

In reply to Ghostriders post no 18

Hanley and Lazaar, bought specifically to aid promotion and possibly de Jong, Mitro and Mbemba.


Then the old chestnuts Saivet, Riviere, Krul, Colback, Haidara. There's quite a bit of wages and contract space to be freed up there.

There are currently 42 players in the squad and this needs to be drastically cut down.

[ghostrider]

In reply to Ghostriders post no 18

Hanley and Lazaar, bought specifically to aid promotion and possibly de Jong, Mitro and Mbemba.

Aiding promotion for Hanley and Lazaar is all fine but in reality they were hardly played, so the younger players would have been ideal enough back up, rather than adding excess wages to the mix without much return.

I'm not sure what you're implying when you mention de Jong Mitro and Mbemba.

Then the old chestnuts Saivet, Riviere, Krul, Colback, Haidara. There's quite a bit of wages and contract space to be freed up there.

Yep but we have to put it into context, because this was an argument about Charnley's and Ashley's so called incompetence in terms of contract lengths plus wages.

Krul has been here for a decade.
Colback was a free transfer and deemed a decent buy by fans alike, even amid the mackem digs.
Haidara succumbed to glass doll syndrome but was also deemed a potential class act.
Saivet has had very little time to do anything to make his wages an issue except not to be picked, before and after being loaned out.

Riviere I totally agree with but then again he came with a potential and didn't fulfil it due to being crap for this league and basically destroyed in confidence most likely.
Of course we need rid but the issue is that contracts are a wing and a prayer job and if it wasn't for the silly Bosman ruling then clubs would not be held to ransom and could offer any contract and still be entitled to a transfer fee should a player refuse to sign another contract, which means they can be controlled much better rather than them controlling their own stance.

There are currently 42 players in the squad and this needs to be drastically cut down.

Of course but this isn't the argument. We all know it has to be trimmed.

[ex_pat_magpie]

Of course Hanley and Lazaar didn't feature much as they were back up and not first selection but never the less needed as squad players.

Likes of Colback on a free is still drawing wages is he not as is Krul who's been here 100's of years. Wages are wages and if players are not needed their wages are to pay others. That's simple economics.

The likes of de Jong Mitro and Mbemba. I added in as my own opinion thinking if Rafa can replace with better before the window shuts then these may be the ones to go and replace.

[ex_pat_magpie]

but not if they had to pay the debt or the bank called in the debt

Quote Originally Posted by waalsendmick View Post
it's like broken record time.... but if you can do it, so can i....


the club would generate A LOT MORE money if advertising wasn't given away free.....


and.... Rafa doesn't sell the players the club does, he is frustrated they havent


What would be the interest on the debt, would be offset many, many times by the revenue lost in the advertising quoted in WaalsendMick's post.

And remember the vast amount of that debt was responsible for the building and maintenance of our magnificent stadium.

[ex_pat_magpie]

so 3 of the 4 or 5 players he wants gone arent rafas

and the ones he has signed this seson he doesnt play or werent his finds

hanley lazzar to name a couple
brought them and hardly played them anyway

wasting ashlys money

No one said all of the players to go weren't Rafas. Read other posts to see this. He bought several players specifically to aid promotion who would be discarded at the end of the promotional season.

They were not wasted money. We have a squad and not just a first team. You play your best first team and the squad players are there to cover for injuries, loss of form and suspensions.

I would have thought even you could have reasoned that one out.

[ghostrider]

Of course Hanley and Lazaar didn't feature much as they were back up and not first selection but never the less needed as squad players.

Likes of Colback on a free is still drawing wages is he not as is Krul who's been here 100's of years. Wages are wages and if players are not needed their wages are to pay others. That's simple economics.

The likes of de Jong Mitro and Mbemba. I added in as my own opinion thinking if Rafa can replace with better before the window shuts then these may be the ones to go and replace.

Mbemba is quality. He's a potential set in partner for Lejeune and/or Lascelles and/or Clarke.
Basically a way better than average 4 CB's.

However, you have strayed off the actual topic we were all debating, which was Charnley and co being buffoons for giving long contracts to crap players, apparently.

The argument is, do we buy the crap knowing they are crap or did we buy them in the hope they would turn out to be worth it and also have enough contract to make sure we don't get held to ransom for their services, by other clubs.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
What contracts are all the players on who Rafa bought for the championship?
1 year? 2 year? 3 year? 4 year? 5 year?


You see, Matz Sels has a 5 year contract on 35,000 a week. Rafa's player.
Ciaran Clarke on 5years.
Grant Hanley on 5 years.
Matt Ritchie on 5 years.
Yedlin on 5 years.
Hayden 5 years.
Lazaar 5 years.


Are any of them worth 5 years and if so, which one's?

You see, this isn't just about Charnley and co. It's about the entire set up and having to take risks.

Now that I'm getting at is; if we only put some players on short term contracts and they eventually turn out to excel or even progress, only to find that they have become an integral part of the team yet are in the last year of their contract and have now become a transfer target from a bigger club, who prefer to wait and steal or force a cheap sale with the player threatening to see out his contract and go for free.

This is what we're up against and there's no crystal ball that can identify which players will turn in to diamonds and who will turn into glass until that contractual ink is dried.

I'd sooner we tie players to longer contracts that shorter one's.
The mere fact that we are over stocked in testament to the club's willingness to buy in regardless of the fact that some can be argued to be nothing other than dressing room fly-by's.

[Nufc24Mag]

I don't get all the furore.

ONE bad performance FFS!

also, I don't get what Rafa Is supposed to have done wrong.

he hasn't bad mouthed any 1st team players, he has simply made it clear which players are not welcome and are not part of his plans, he has then voiced frustration that the business side of the club has failed to move said players on, hence, hindering his bringing in of players.

two weeks ago, pundits were saying we would go down because we hadn't added enough to the squad, now they're Slagging Rafa off, for explaining to them why this is the case!

phecking pundits....

we went up last season because we had premier league players in the champo.....

..... we're going down this season because we have champo players in the prem.....


.... it's the same phecking players!!!

Yea some pundits are absolutely sh*te, the other week I was watching the Sunderland match and that grabbon hit a shot and it went miles over the bar and that sh*tty championship pundit who always had us to lose said that will give him confidence

Merson ect are the worst

[pboromag]

No one said all of the players to go weren't Rafas. Read other posts to see this. He bought several players specifically to aid promotion who would be discarded at the end of the promotional season.

They were not wasted money. We have a squad and not just a first team. You play your best first team and the squad players are there to cover for injuries, loss of form and suspensions.

I would have thought even you could have reasoned that one out.

so if they were goingto be discarded at the end of the season why did they get 5 year contracts
please reason to me why if you buy a player to do aone year job you give him a 5 year conract

surely if you brought them to do a job and they have done it every year you keep them after that drawing money and taking up squad places and the likes they then become a waste of money

maybe rafa aint all that when he has 6 players on long term contracts doing short term work

and he wonders why money is tight