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Thread: Arabtrust - actions speak louder than words

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by portuguesefrank View Post
    and for anyone wondering how easy it is to call an egm to install a new leadership of the trust the answer is:

    “b. If a written requisition signed (except where these rules say otherwise) by not less than 20 members or 10% of the membership, whichever is the higher, is delivered to the society’s registered office. The requisition must state the purpose for which the meeting is to be convened. If the secretary is not within the united kingdom or is unwilling to convene a general meeting any society board member may call a general meeting.”

    (above is from a trust website. Page 10 of the society rules)

    so if it’s 500 members then you only need 50 folk to get a egm. Surely doable if there are so many that want the trust to go in a different direction?
    simples

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retired Arab View Post
    simples
    Retired - genuine questions - are the AT committee aware that you are responding on here? Have you been given authority to or are these your personal opinions?

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by PortugueseFrank View Post
    You know what I find fascinating?

    The fact it takes me to point out the obvious and simple route to change the directions of a group like the Trust for people to go silent.

    Itís almost as if those who call for different behaviour from the Trust or other groups donít have the strength of their convictions to even attempt to follow through.

    Is it easier to snipe from the sidelines than actually put your neck on the line?

    If the trust, as an example, is to be accused of dereliction of duty then is it not also a dereliction of duty for those than can change things to simply stand back and not step forward?

    That is why I find this whole conversation a complete minter for those that complain yet donít follow the clearly set out and simple routes to change the direction of an organisation like Arabtrust.

    It is in fact more damning to the critics than the trust itself.
    TBH when I read this I was pretty despondent because all I wanted to achieve by criticising AT was to see them in these difficult times for the club being more open with communication to non paid up members.

    But seeing your later posts I'm really encouraged. It's entirely possible that AT have good reasons for adopting the strategy they have but unless they open up a bit they will continue to leave themselves open to question. So lets see if they do.
    Taking your example of a mass migration in of new fans who want to see the Associate Directorship resigned, using your figures 50 new members would have to convince an existing majority of 500 to go a different route. That wouldn't be easy and would possibly need to be grown to a "holding group" of some 250 who are agreed on a new set of actions and who then join all at once and make the coup. I'm not sure how that would or could work.

    What I do believe is that a really strong PR campaign would be a good place to start, but with so many fan groups at the moment this seems unlikely to happen. Are the different fans groups talking and co-ordinating a set of actions or is everyone doing their own thing?

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by stokearab View Post
    Retired - genuine questions - are the AT committee aware that you are responding on here? Have you been given authority to or are these your personal opinions?
    This loon no the lunatic fa made a right c unt of himself on the ArabTrust facebook no too lang ago?

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by PortugueseFrank View Post
    Being perfectly honest.

    People need to put up or shut up when it is in fact itso simple to affect change on any of the fan groups directions.

    Me. Iíve no interest in any of them.

    There should be only one anyway.

    And Iíll be honest. A changed Arabtrust is best placed to fulfil that role. Third largest shareholder, associate place on board already.

    Yet. We have two new groups spring up recently that could achieve everything they wanted by forcing change at AT and the Fed, that hate the Trust anyway, could easily mobilise votes to take over control bit for some reason donít. I find that in itself bizarre.

    Portuguese Frankly I donít see the point.

    There only needs to be one group.

    It smacks to me on all sides of egos and fear of defeat in winning the arguments.

    We donít need all these groups.

    If you want change, go after the biggest fish (AT with its shareholding) and change it.

    Everything else wastes time and muddy the waters which ultimately suits ST and his board of incompetents right down to the ground.
    Am i reading this right porto loon? the fans can take over ArabTrust and throw oot the turds in charge the now ?

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyce_arab View Post
    This loon no the lunatic fa made a right c unt of himself on the ArabTrust facebook no too lang ago?
    Dunno Dyce. Didn't exactly cover himself in glory on here

  7. #87
    has to be the same loon, pardon the pun. he he

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyce_arab View Post
    Am i reading this right porto loon? the fans can take over ArabTrust and throw oot the turds in charge the now ?
    I'm not answering for Frank but I think he's right, yes we can. But to do it we'd need a massive influx of new members in order to dilute their power to resist it. I don't know how many members they have and I don't even know if it's advisable or a real possibility. Worth exploring if only to make them sh1t their smug pants.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by stokearab View Post
    I'm not answering for Frank but I think he's right, yes we can. But to do it we'd need a massive influx of new members in order to dilute their power to resist it. I don't know how many members they have and I don't even know if it's advisable or a real possibility. Worth exploring if only to make them sh1t their smug pants.
    So we can take over and get rid of people like this Retired loon? Surely having people like that on board canna be a good thing?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyce_arab View Post
    So we can take over and get rid of people like this Retired loon? Surely having people like that on board canna be a good thing?
    Well at this point we're just exploring possibilities. It's one thing stirring the pot from here in Spain, it's entirely different to see if there's an appetite for it am ong the local support. Also, before anything like that happens AT should have the chance to defend their position and set out their agenda a little more in the open for non paying members.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by stokearab View Post
    Well at this point we're just exploring possibilities. It's one thing stirring the pot from here in Spain, it's entirely different to see if there's an appetite for it am ong the local support. Also, before anything like that happens AT should have the chance to defend their position and set out their agenda a little more in the open for non paying members.
    Hope they dinna defend themselves in the manner retired has or there will be blood and snotters ahwiys min

  12. #92
    Onyway, this forums too mad fir me im awa back oor to TEKEL TOWERS, nae lunatics on there min.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyce_arab View Post
    Am i reading this right porto loon? the fans can take over ArabTrust and throw oot the turds in charge the now ?
    The trust is one member, one vote as DUSF are so fond of saying.

    If an EGM is called and a vote of no confidence is carried by majority in the room and votes by proxy then a new board must be elected.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by stokearab View Post
    I'm not answering for Frank but I think he's right, yes we can. But to do it we'd need a massive influx of new members in order to dilute their power to resist it. I don't know how many members they have and I don't even know if it's advisable or a real possibility. Worth exploring if only to make them sh1t their smug pants.
    It doesnít necessarily require an influx of great numbers of new members.

    You simply need enough existing or new members to call an EGM and then a majority in the room to carry any vote,

    So if 40 folk turn up and thatís all that votes then youíd only need 21 to carry any votes.

    The trust has always had this remarkably Democratic route that couldíve been utilised at any time.

    One member, one vote.

    Instead of spending 13k (which will come out of the members direct debits) to set themselves up as pretty much exactly the same kind of legal entity as the trust, the DUSF simply couldíve spent around £750 signing up 50 members to the Trust then take over at an EGM.

    Which I think illustrates quite acutely why DUSF seems to me to a missed a rather glaring and much simpler route and makes me a bit wary of their abilities to deliver.

    Iím sure they are all smashing and smart guys but did not one of them sit up at their meetings and go ďhey guys, couldínt we just take over the Trust? Would save our members a lot of cashĒ.

    Instead 13k spunked reinventing the wheel. Thatís ST thinking right there!

    Iím reminded of the story (a myth but still) of NASA supposedly spending millions of dollars trying to invent a zero gravity pen, as pens donít work in space. Millions of taxpayers money invested. What did the soviets do?

    Used pencils. Voila.

    So why use a zero gravity pen when you can just use a pencil?
    Last edited by PortugueseFrank; 14-09-2017 at 12:03 AM.

  15. #95
    Except the money spent DID NOT come out of direct debits! The expenses were covered personally by the Founder members!
    As for Arabtrust, I believe it has been tainted by its continual act of disappearing up the boards backside and the only alternative was to set up a new entity without any baggage
    Arabtrust could and should have had the vision to do what the Foundation are now setting out to do but did not do it. Why?

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by littlebeach View Post
    Except the money spent DID NOT come out of direct debits! The expenses were covered personally by the Founder members!
    As for Arabtrust, I believe it has been tainted by its continual act of disappearing up the boards backside and the only alternative was to set up a new entity without any baggage
    Arabtrust could and should have had the vision to do what the Foundation are now setting out to do but did not do it. Why?
    I get what you are saying but thatís still member money that couldíve been put to better use.

    Ok, so founder members money pays to setup an organisation whoís very steering group could simply have taken over the Trust board at minimal cost in comparison.

    Then made clear their new focus and intention, their break with the perceived issues that see people so against the Trust. Would you have been against this, Little Beach? Iíd be keen to know the answer to that.

    Would anyone have been against that? And can they explain why?

    Dundee United is tainted, so should we just set up a new club ďwithout any baggageĒ as you put it? No of course not.

    And letís also not forget this important fact:

    DUSF is an entity in much the same way as Arabtrust. In that it is one member, one vote.

    What happens if the DUSF members all of a sudden decide to elect a board that stands on a platform to work with the current regime at Tannadice or even elects the current members of the Arabtrust board for example after they have stood on a platform to merge DUSF with the Trust?

    Democracy being what it is, will this be accepted? Or will fans setup another group at a cost again?

    How many groups will be setup when all you needed to do in the first place was to rally your vote and win control of the trust?

  17. #97
    It might just be that DUSF didn't want to be seen as confrontational from the outset. It might not look good to some that their 1st act as a new body were to usurp AT or maybe the long term goal of the foundation is to fully take over so they don't want to rock the boat.

    All ifs and buts though.

  18. #98
    Itís not confrontational to seek to use democratic levers to change the direction of Arabtrust. Itís the best route to go down imo.

    And if the brand is so damaged, one of their first acts could be to ďrebrandĒ.

    The more I think about it the more I come back to these points:

    13k couldíve been saved by taking control of an organisation already setup to do what DUSF can with the added bonus of an existing seat on the club board (which they could resign if they wanted) and the third largest shareholding in the club.

    And we also have to be alert to the fact that DUSF could eventually elect a leadership in favour of and vote by majority of members to provide finances to the club under its current regime.

    I think I should point out this isnít anything against DUSF. Im sure theyíre great guys and hearts in right place.

    Fans United for example could have done the same. Then they couldíve saved on the yellow scarfs, banners and leaflets.

    The point is, any disgruntled groups could seize control of the trust, with all its shares etc, and push their agenda. It would also give the ordinary punter 1 group to get behind rather than 5 or 6.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyce_arab View Post
    This loon no the lunatic fa made a right c unt of himself on the ArabTrust facebook no too lang ago?

    Dyce is obviously incapable of contributing to this discussion so instead deflects from main issues by being abusive. Typical schoolkid behaviour. Mnnnnn.....So sad!

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by stokearab View Post
    Retired - genuine questions - are the AT committee aware that you are responding on here? Have you been given authority to or are these your personal opinions?

    You're way off the mark here Stoke. You think you know but you've really not got a clue about many issues including who I am. Lots of decent Arabs support the ArabTRUST viewpoint. Just because they don't read or post on UNITED MAD or social media platforms doesn't mean they don't exist. Remember 28,000 went to Hampden just 7 years ago. Think about that number - TWENTY EIGHT THOUSAND. And btw I'm certainly not saying they all support ArabTRUST.

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