Dave on The Art of Winning Ugly...

[The Bedlington Terrier]

http://www.clarets-mad.co.uk/clarets...-ugly/9090239/

[blueheeler1]

http://www.clarets-mad.co.uk/clarets...-ugly/9090239/

Just after the game my Son said he can see someone saying "you have to win ugly".

And I really like Dave's comments as a rule.

This comment must go hand in hand with "you have to marry ugly" and "you have to have ugly kids".

I'm sure that's true so that as you go through life you can....?

No, you don't have to sometimes win ugly--it must have been coined one-time by a manager trying to justify the unjustifiable.

You have to play like every game is your last game--because one day it will be.

You have to play with passion and commitment and "making a difference".

And if you don't do that you have conned yourself and everyone who watched you play.

Yes I hate the expression because it tells me to go quietly away and count the points and not bother about loving Burnley or this great game.

And that's not right--is it?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

To be fair to Dave, our eejit of a site Editor titled the article! Editor's prerogative and all that.

I believe he is as sick as a parrot that you are offended blueheeler1!

[thedonz]

Fair report although don't like the idea of the James Anderson stand despite being proud of ' Sir Jimmy'

[Norder]

.

....you get the talent up front - you'll push forward because you want to use it....it can wriggle and dribble it's way to the back of the opposition net -so can afford to play more of an attacking game.
Sides that play teams like us are going to push forward regardless, because we sit back and are happy to let them come....as with Palace - who regularly saw two players on the goal line, either side of Tom/Pope - the box is crammed....we just crowd it out - so it's up to them to find space or take a shot etc without one of us being in the way - that's not easy unless you have some real quality and speed going on - the special type that can confuse or do something out of the ordinary.
Palace....had the majority of the ball - if they couldn't breakthrough - then they may think they've got quality enough to push on and get the goals - but as I see it, as of today....they dont, was all fairly basic stuff from them - it had to be - all that time spent in our box with nothing to show for it - what perhaps they should have figured is to lay off a lot more - draw us out - let us onto them...then a fast break with half our defence still upfield - then perhaps they could have taken something home.
But saying that - if the way we're setup is to defend....then we wont fall for it - as the times we did go forward - if we couldn't find the space, we took the ball back....no risks - not like in the past, when we were on the attack, wondering who should get the pass....we lost the ball to an intercept - and conceded goals from the earlier mistake....I dont think were playing as far as that hesitation that forces the bungles as much as we were - if it comes to it...we'll just whack the ball at goal with a wild shot - if it goes wide and out then fine - were back up the field and ready to defend the goalkick.
If it's unbeautiful - then I guess we could call it ugly....but unlike many others - were not pretending.

Cheers Dave.

[blueheeler1]

.

....you get the talent up front - you'll push forward because you want to use it....it can wriggle and dribble it's way to the back of the opposition net -so can afford to play more of an attacking game.
Sides that play teams like us are going to push forward regardless, because we sit back and are happy to let them come....as with Palace - who regularly saw two players on the goal line, either side of Tom/Pope - the box is crammed....we just crowd it out - so it's up to them to find space or take a shot etc without one of us being in the way - that's not easy unless you have some real quality and speed going on - the special type that can confuse or do something out of the ordinary.
Palace....had the majority of the ball - if they couldn't breakthrough - then they may think they've got quality enough to push on and get the goals - but as I see it, as of today....they dont, was all fairly basic stuff from them - it had to be - all that time spent in our box with nothing to show for it - what perhaps they should have figured is to lay off a lot more - draw us out - let us onto them...then a fast break with half our defence still upfield - then perhaps they could have taken something home.
But saying that - if the way we're setup is to defend....then we wont fall for it - as the times we did go forward - if we couldn't find the space, we took the ball back....no risks - not like in the past, when we were on the attack, wondering who should get the pass....we lost the ball to an intercept - and conceded goals from the earlier mistake....I dont think were playing as far as that hesitation that forces the bungles as much as we were - if it comes to it...we'll just whack the ball at goal with a wild shot - if it goes wide and out then fine - were back up the field and ready to defend the goalkick.
If it's unbeautiful - then I guess we could call it ugly....but unlike many others - were not pretending.

Cheers Dave.

Understand all of that which is a good critique on the overall play against Palace.

However, here is my take.

"Sides that play teams like us are going to push forward regardless, because we sit back and are happy to let them come...". We are talking Palace-not Man Utd.

We are talking playing at home-not away where one point is a good point.

Staying up in the Prem is probably going to depend more on our home form than our away form.

Having lost our fisrt game at home we really needed this one.

So when you go one goal up in the first few minutes you say we go back for the rest of the game and defend Palace players who come at us in numbers?

We don't counter attack? We don't push them back to relieve the constant pressure on our defence?

We don't go for the second goal to kill the game off?

We just defend to the last third and crowd them out and hope 1. We don't give away a penalty; 2. We don't give away a free kick in a dangerous area; 3. We don't give Palace a deflected goal with all these bodies in the area?

Do Palace have defensive weaknesses? We will never know after the first few minutes of the game right to the end.

Always have the view that the best form of defence is attack.

Not attack at all costs but make the other team reluctant to commit too many forward for fear of a counter. Where was our counter? We just gave them every chance to score and it was bad finishing and a good save from Pope that stopped us losing 2 precious points.

The reason Palace could come at us in numbers and defended in numbers was because they either snuck two extra players onto the field or ran harder with more intent than us.

[Turfmoorspirit]

We won ! Happy phuckin days..

[Supersub6]

Why do we have to rely on our home form? We are undefeated away from home this season and have played last year's champions and runners-up

[blueheeler1]

Why do we have to rely on our home form? We are undefeated away from home this season and have played last year's champions and runners-up

I did actually say "Staying up in the Prem is probably going to depend more on our home form than our away form".

And I will stand by it.

[Norder]

Understand all of that which is a good critique on the overall play against Palace.

However, here is my take.
"Sides that play teams like us are going to push forward regardless, because we sit back and are happy to let them come...". We are talking Palace-not Man Utd.
So when you go one goal up in the first few minutes you say we go back for the rest of the game and defend Palace players who come at us in numbers?
We don't counter attack? We don't push them back to relieve the constant pressure on our defence?
We don't go for the second goal to kill the game off?
We just defend to the last third and crowd them out and hope 1. We don't give away a penalty; 2. We don't give away a free kick in a dangerous area; 3. We don't give Palace a deflected goal with all these bodies in the area?
Not attack at all costs but make the other team reluctant to commit too many forward for fear of a counter. Where was our counter? We just gave them every chance to score and it was bad finishing and a good save from Pope that stopped us losing 2 precious points.

I dont think it really matters who we play at this level.....there'll be little change, being we're seemingly geared up to defend and sneak goals - one reason we bought Wood perhaps - unlike Gray - if Wood gets the ball near goal - he'll make the most of it...his initial touch has quality. I think Palace knew of our strength on the counter....they were quick to track back when we got the ball, and pressured us on it to slow us up - But I also feel we should have done and made more from our attacks - even if it was at the risk of us losing the ball, that shouldn't be a big deal....as need to take those risks to get anywhere, but "if" the team was told never allow Palace to move on our goal without big numbers there to defend it - then we wouldn't see another goal unless it was from player or two that was free on the break.
Agree....there's the other risk at our end....anything can happen, a small slip up, someone not in the perfect position on the goal line, we don't block the shot etc etc - risk vs risk.....we push forward and dont score - which is the cause of them scoring - but if we defend and wait for an easy - we get another goal - but if they score from us defending - we still get a point....and if they push hard for the second, they could leave themselves open and we take all three.

....it's in the air - and could all change during the coming games - will need to I think.

Cheers.