Lukaku chant

[monty_rhodes]

ragingpup, that is a sensible and constructive post. I agree with most of it. Actually "censorship" by organisations can be handled; more worrying is the self-censorship demanded by audiences. I think it was John Cleese who made the point that he could make a particular joke where the subjects were Americans, swedes or Belgians and the audience loved it but when he made the subject Mexicans he was booed.

[Yak]

If your looking to be offended you will be

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

There's quite a famous bit of censoring that the TV people did, a repeat on channel 4 as far as I remember:-

In episode five of the first series of I'm Alan Partridge, titled 'To Kill a Mocking Alan', the character calls his stalker Jed a "spastic" and "mentalist"

The spastic bit was edited out on the repeat, however it basically being the punchline the action was gearing up to it basically killed it.

As for BBC1 you are highly unlikely to see the film Blazing Saddles and would definitely not see a repeat of 4 Lions. Both are frowned on by the thought police.

[rileyev.the.third]

I remember hundreds of Rotherham United fans singing 'Suck my Kn*b' to the tune of the A Team whilst playing away at Northampton Town one Tuesday night.

Remember it well. I was 19 or 20. It was the group of lads I went to games with that started this song. Most of the blokes were in their 30s/40s and we went from the Colin Cambell pub.

The chant always generated a laugh from ours and our opposition fans alike.

We took a coach to the Newcastle away game and stopped at a pub on route, somewhere off the A1 I think. The Landlord was a great bloke and said if you call in on the way back I'll stay open late and put some grub on. We called on the way back and sure enough he'd put a right spread on, we stayed and supped in there for several hours. The Landlord also gave us a tip for the Triumph Hurdle at Cheltenham that year that got placed at about 40/1.

Great night, cant remember if we sang the suck mi n0b chant or not!!!

[ragingpup]

ragingpup, that is a sensible and constructive post. I agree with most of it. Actually "censorship" by organisations can be handled; more worrying is the self-censorship demanded by audiences. I think it was John Cleese who made the point that he could make a particular joke where the subjects were Americans, swedes or Belgians and the audience loved it but when he made the subject Mexicans he was booed.

I guess that depends on context and what's in the heart of the comedian/writer. If the comedian dislikes the person/people his/her jokes are targeting and is using their comedy to attack them, then they rightly run the risk of being booed.

Cleese isn't a 'hater' comedian, not many comic are, and most are quite astute, clever and insightful when making comedy about different people. If Cleese offended some people with his jokes he is big and strong enough to brush it off and continue with his act. As Yak says, some people are looking to be offended. Cleese should just get on with it and be thankful that such people don't attend his future shows.

But some comedians have been known to target people but actually come from a place of fear and ignorance about them. I think it's fair enough that if a comedian is going to lampoon a people or culture, s/he should do their research, get to know them and then come at it from a position of insight. That way, lazy stereotypes are avoided and you come from a position of good natured, well intentioned, if quite critical, comedy.

To be honest, do any of us want any comedians that come from a point of ignorance and attack people/cultures without really knowing them? I think that if anyone does (and I can't really think of any that still do?! Is Davidson still going? ) they deserve whatever audience hostility they get.

In the meantime, I hope good comedians and tv producers feel able to carry on with good insightful comedy that pokes fun at all of us!

[frogmiller]

Ragingpup, you refered to Jimmy Carr in a post. On 8 out of 10 and 8 out of 10 does count down I think Jimmy Carr is fantastic but I watched 10 minutes of him live on telly and had to turn it off because it just wasn't my cup of tea. That's the first time I've ever been like that with an artist. It wouldn't and dooesn't stop me watching 8 out of 10 but I wouldn't watch him live again.

Comedy it is a matter of taste Often the more shocking it is the funnier - Franky Boile is one who pushes the bounderiesand credit to him.

[Exiletyke]

I'm not that familiar with the scenes you have in mind. But I think you might have in mind deleting of scenes in DVD re-releases? I think similar things have happened with old beloved series of mine such as The Young Ones, Filthy Rich and Catflap and even Only Fools and Horses?

I would argue that these are just cosmetic readjustments that the owners make as they feel that they don't want to offend a 'market' with different tastes and world views from when they were made. Are they necessary? Not for me, in these instances I thought they were funny and well observed details. I don't think they are offensive. Are they enforced? No they aren't - it's the commercial owners trying to adjust content to a more (in their opinion) 'developed' market. But no one has to make these cuts. Loads of old non PC stuff is re released un changed, Carry On, Frankie Howard, Benny Hill. Mixed quality but no ones stopping it. At the very worst, it's marketing execs and producers that are worried about their sales. Take the problem up with them, not some non existent PC censors that exist only in some paranoiac heads!

Ken Loach won the Palme D'Or & Prix du Public for I Daniel Blake recently & I am surprised that someone of your learning seems totally unaware of his work as is demonstrated by your comments
That's the sort of censorship I mean & the BBC & TV media has been on this mission to censor his work for years
Have you heard of I Daniel Blake very much on main stream media ?
Obviously not which sort of makes my point

[ragingpup]

Ken Loach won the Palme D'Or & Prix du Public for I Daniel Blake recently & I am surprised that someone of your learning seems totally unaware of his work as is demonstrated by your comments
That's the sort of censorship I mean & the BBC & TV media has been on this mission to censor his work for years
Have you heard of I Daniel Blake very much on main stream media ?
Obviously not which sort of makes my point

I'm aware of Loach, and like many of his films, although not one I'd buy the DVDs of. I saw I Daniel Blake at the cinema on release and it was very good. I'm just not aware of an ongoing effort from BBC and TV to censor his work?I am aware that he isn't a fan of the media though!

I thought that I Daniel Blake was quite well reviewed in the media. I know there was many who disliked the polemics but a lot gave it good reviews as well. But obviously not aware of any concerted effort to censor it? What evidence is there for that? Quite interested to read up on it but busy at mo.

I thought you might have been referring to some of his earlier films having elements of non-PC language or summat. Obviously not, so interested in this. Do tell...

[Exiletyke]

I'm aware of Loach, and like many of his films, although not one I'd buy the DVDs of. I saw I Daniel Blake at the cinema on release and it was very good. I'm just not aware of an ongoing effort from BBC and TV to censor his work?I am aware that he isn't a fan of the media though!

I thought that I Daniel Blake was quite well reviewed in the media. I know there was many who disliked the polemics but a lot gave it good reviews as well. But obviously not aware of any concerted effort to censor it? What evidence is there for that? Quite interested to read up on it but busy at mo.

I thought you might have been referring to some of his earlier films having elements of non-PC language or summat. Obviously not, so interested in this. Do tell...

When you've got a minute or two, read & learn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Loach

[monty_rhodes]

Some interesting points made on this thread. In one sense though I think the argument over direct censorship misses an important point. Organisations like the BBC are always wary of being caught with a heavy hand but they are canny enough to know that it's rarely required. A more useful avenue is that of self-censorship but this ultimately is far more pernicious. What I mean by this is simple. If you want your work to have a good chance of being commissioned you play the game. Look, for example, at the new Star Trek Discovery. Strong female roles with a Chinese and a black woman heading up the crew. Positive Arab role models in the crew. A gay crewman and I believe transgender issues will feature positively in the series. If you don't believe that the BBC will look more kindly on a sitcom (or whatever) with positive female, ethnic and LGBT content then you're wrong. If Nadya had been a white working class lass from Barnsley she'd have sunk without trace long ago.