Post Brexit trade disaster...

[oldcolner]

59-60
Tariff free, customs free trade with our 27 closest neighbours is looking pretty good to me right now.

Well we would accept it but the EU won’t offer it and we are leaving despite Lib Dem valiant efforts to ignore democracy. We didn’t agree to fund their plans to 2021,as they didn’t know what they would cost we just agreed the plans. Once we leave and have paid whatever is agreed, they can change them again. They can and have changed these already such as the move to an EU army. What we need to pay for is a matter for negotiation and our starting point is nil and theirs is £100M. The outcome will be somewhere in between. But then they will want more money to pay for a trade deal. Negotiations with the EU seem to go until the 59th minute of the 23rd hour. It’s good for them to know we might say stuff it and not have to fold as Greece did.
If we have to pay a tariff then so will they and on a larger sum. We can offer tariff free trade with the rest of the world though.

[1959_60]

Evening Sinkov!

Good debate and although we are not going to agree on this (or fossil fuels!) it is good to hear all aspects being aired.

Yes, we wish to leave "the club" but to have a bespoke deal to still trade with the other members. (Norway, Canada or some such agreement)

Until we reach an agreement on our outstanding obligations then I would not entertain any discussions on future business. But I get the feeling that we are not prepared to pay our debts because many people would think we have caved in.

If we were still in the EU and it was, say, France who was behaving like us, would you not want them to meet their obligations before discussing future deals with them?

[oldcolner]

Read the facts from the Institute of Government here
https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...u-divorce-bill

They claim under four headings
1 Outstanding budget commitments
The EU Budget operates through a multi-annual spending structure, which means projects are paid for over a period of several years. As a result, EU Budget payments are back-loaded and many will be paid out post-Brexit. For example, a key element of EU spending allocations consists of cohesion fund payments, aimed at raising living standards in the 2004 Accession countries
2 EU officials’ pensions
the Pension Scheme of European Officials (PESO) is an unfunded scheme and operates on a ‘pay-as-you-go basis’, with costs being covered by the annual EU Budget as they arise.
3Contingent liabilities
These liabilities effectively constitute payments that would be triggered in specific circumstances only, for example, Ukraine defaulting on its EU loan.
4 Other costs of withdrawal
cover the relocation of the two London-based EU agencies after Brexit; the European Banking Authority and the European Medicines Agency. Other costs include the decommissioning of the Joint Research Centre nuclear sites and funding British teachers seconded to European schools until 2021.

[1959_60]

Interesting OC but once again it is lacking in specifics.

We still don't know how much we will have to pay and that is absolutely fundamental before we start chatting about future agreements.

I notice that the Government has not allocated any money whatsoever towards the divorce bill. Relying on our good old magic money tree?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

We have no legal obligation to pay them anything once we are out of the EU, but our government has always insisted we will pay anything it can fairly be said we have an obligation to pay.
It is though virtually impossible to come to any agreement on this amount without taking into account our future trading relationship, but the EU refuses to discuss these issues in tandem and is thus 100% responsible for the current impasse.
It should be a priority to negotiate a reasonable settlement and trading arrangement between the EU and the world's 5th largest economy, it is obviously in the best interests of the UK and the 27 EU countries, but it is not in the interests of the EU elite and their political project, hence the intransigence on the part of that elite. Once again it is clear that the blame for the stalemate lies in Brussels, not London, and the attempt by some political parties and sections of the media to suggest otherwise is at the very least shameful, if not actually traiterous.

You are INHO pretty much bang on with this one sinkov. We are forwarding motions from grassroots level to Labour HQ that this is pretty much the stance we should take.

The Tories are dithering and I hope the Labour Party hierarchy can seize the initiative and rip the heck out of the accord and any hope of a congruent EU divorce settlement. We need a mutually beneficial trade agreement, arrange free trade without borders with Eire and get the great British entrepreneurial spirit off its arse and rocking and rolling.

The only realistic way forward for the United Kingdom to move forward is to create a candid alliance within our own sovereign state between domestic public sector finance and globalized private investment. That can be done!

The 27 member states of the EU are not (Brexit sorted that!) and should not represent the bedrock of the United Kingdom's future financial strategy.

If Corbyn can seize the initiative and grasp the nettle, the Labour Party will walk the next election because too many current Tory MP's share the same vision of a divorced and independent Great Britain.

[1959_60]

BT, may I refer you to your OP...?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

I always post to get a response and get a dialogue going, we cannot leave Brexit in the hands of a divided, bickering party of backstabbers.

Leave it to Labour who are already in deep discussions with the EU negotiating team!

[oldcolner]

I always post to get a response and get a dialogue going, we cannot leave Brexit in the hands of a divided, bickering party of backstabbers.

Leave it to Labour who are already in deep discussions with the EU negotiating team!

Ha ha. How Deep!!
Ok BT what is Labours negotiating position today given your immense confidence in a bunch of folk who seem to stand on shifting sands.

[1959_60]

Aye OC. The Tories would prefer to remain but they see a great political opportunity for going for the hardest Brexit. The ultra right wing of their part supports this approach, whilst the more normal amongst them see the damage that this would cause us.

As you say, Labours position is as clear as mud and constantly changing.

I am very happy with the Lib Dem stance (which I reckon Labour will soon adopt) in giving the public the final say on the final deal.

[barrie_burn]

We left the British public to decide about the EU.Unfortunately I suspect that 99% did not have sufficient knowledge to make a balanced decision and therefore voted according to their instincts.It will only be in 10 years,maybe,that we can look back and discuss with some certainty whether it was the right decision or not.

I hope that we have learned our lesson and do not leave any final decision to the public.The Government are democratically elected to make these decisions and not pass the buck.