Italy v Sweden

[jackal2]

To be honest there's no need for National Anthems, who respects their oppnents Anthem

That's the other solution I suppose, a bit like the use of a minute's applause rather than a minute's silence (when appropriate) has rather usefully allowed people to show respect without giving the obligatory idiot a chance to draw attention to themselves.

[Notts78]

Who said the anything about "over playing"? What I'm talking about is not just booting the ball upfield to nobody in the last 10 minutes and giving your opponent an automatic opportunity to launch another attack, when actually you're not being pressed and there's a safe pass on to a team-mate five yards away. That's not "overplaying", it's just simple, basic football.

You're right in one sense. Italy were so inept going forward that they still couldn't take advantage of multiple extra and unnecessary chances to attack, but better teams and forwards would have done. It doesn't make the tactics right.

Next summer I'm sure the likes of England and Sweden will stick to the huff-and-puff style that's seemingly imprinted on their DNA, and I'm sure they will be knackered after three games and will go out to the first decent team they play. Meanwhile, a team that knows how to control possession will conserve their energy best and win the World Cup.

Now I know you are talking *******s. One thing that can't be levelled at England is 'hoof ball'. England pass and pass and pass and pass. Usually along the back line and occasionally in to Henderson etc and back.

Englands problem is nothing to do with keeping possession but rather with the lack of creativity when they have it. England do not have a David Silva, a Pirlo or an Ericson who can unlock defences 'with a pass'. This is glaringly obvious to everyone. England simply can't magic up this kind of player, although Foden at Man City, aged 17, looks a prospect.

England will be suited to teams coming on to them as we certainly have the pace to trouble teams of space is left in behind, not a luxury we had in qualification. At least we are there, footballing giants like Italy, Holland and Chile won't be.

[drillerpie]

I actually thought it was 3-2 to Italy on penalties not given. Would still have seen Sweden through on away goals though.

The backlash has already started in Italy, Ventura bearing the brunt of it (rightly so in my opinion, it's not a vintage Italy team but they still have enough to see off a very limited Sweden, they would have breezed through with Conte as manager), but it's remarkable how similar it is to what happens after an English meltdown - too many foreigners, wrong people in charge of the FA, academies not up to scratch, complacent and living off former glories etc.

[jackal2]

Now I know you are talking *******s. One thing that can't be levelled at England is 'hoof ball'. England pass and pass and pass and pass. Usually along the back line and occasionally in to Henderson etc and back.

Englands problem is nothing to do with keeping possession but rather with the lack of creativity when they have it. England do not have a David Silva, a Pirlo or an Ericson who can unlock defences 'with a pass'. This is glaringly obvious to everyone. England simply can't magic up this kind of player, although Foden at Man City, aged 17, looks a prospect.

England will be suited to teams coming on to them as we certainly have the pace to trouble teams of space is left in behind, not a luxury we had in qualification. At least we are there, footballing giants like Italy, Holland and Chile won't be.

England pass the ball against much lesser teams in the qualifiers (usually at home) who sit back and basically concede possession, but in the big tournaments, when we play a team of any quality who are decent at retaining the ball themselves, we revert to bad habits. Look at most of our recent tournament performances against teams of any note and it's the same story.

One of the most recent examples was against Italy (ironically enough) in the 2014 World Cup. They weren't a great side even then and relied almost entirely on a much-diminished Pirlo, but we made it easy for them by constantly giving the ball away. I know I'm not talking b*******, because the frustration of watching that game sticks in my mind as an example of our many failings in the big tournament games when it really matters. I'm not saying we always hoofed it against Italy, but certainly whenever we won the ball back we tended to go for an instant forward pass through the eye of a needle, trying to force a move that wasn't there, rather than being patient and waiting for the gaps to appear. The final possession stats were 56% to 44% in favour of Italy, but in reality they appeared to dominate completely.

I agree with you that we struggle to unlock teams, but that was true even when we had comparatively decent passers like Steve Gerrard in the team. The end-to-end nature of the Premier League makes it very exciting, because it's like there's an unwritten rule that both teams will commit to attack, leaving plenty of space for counter attacking and plenty of goalscoring opportunities for box-to-box midfielders of the Frank Lampard type. Unfortunately, international tournament football isn't often played like Premier League football and we don't seem to be able to adapt. When a team of decent quality sits back and says break us down, we panic and play forward passes too quickly instead of patiently moving the ball around and probing for the weakness.

Are we lacking a Pirlo/Silva type? Almost certainly yes. Jonjo Shelvey is probably one of the few English players who can genuinely play a killer pass, and he brings too much other baggage with him to get selected. Even if we had one though, we would still need the other players around them to perform more intelligently on the big stage against good teams, as opposed to looking okay against teams like Lithuania who don't have the quality to defend well even if they do sit back.

[navypie]

I actually thought it was 3-2 to Italy on penalties not given. Would still have seen Sweden through on away goals though.

The backlash has already started in Italy, Ventura bearing the brunt of it (rightly so in my opinion, it's not a vintage Italy team but they still have enough to see off a very limited Sweden, they would have breezed through with Conte as manager), but it's remarkable how similar it is to what happens after an English meltdown - too many foreigners, wrong people in charge of the FA, academies not up to scratch, complacent and living off former glories etc.

I actually thought it was 2-1 to Sweden on pens.

[kill_the_drum]

The booing during Sweden's national anthem was the worse I ever heard , you could see the look of disbelieve on the players faces . If that happened at an England game we would be labelled a disgrace and threatened with being thrown out of whatever competition but nothing will be done to the Italians. Come on Sweden !

I don’t think we would be threatened with being thrown out!

[drillerpie]

I actually thought it was 2-1 to Sweden on pens.

Sorry I don't know why I put 3 for Italy, 2 each in my view.

The two handballs for Sweden (second one slightly harsh but first one nailed on), while the foul early doors on the Italian running into the box (defender touched the ball but went through the back of the player to do so ) and especially the GBH on Darmian were pretty clear cut I thought.

[navypie]

Sorry I don't know why I put 3 for Italy, 2 each in my view.

The two handballs for Sweden (second one slightly harsh but first one nailed on), while the foul early doors on the Italian running into the box (defender touched the ball but went through the back of the player to do so ) and especially the GBH on Darmian were pretty clear cut I thought.

Your right about the foul on Darmian , bit naughty that but I thought both handballs were nailed on . Anyway driller , that's what the world is all about , difference 's of opinion's , well until that video technology comes in then what would we argue about in the pub , boring !

[drillerpie]

Your right about the foul on Darmian , bit naughty that but I thought both handballs were nailed on . Anyway driller , that's what the world is all about , difference 's of opinion's , well until that video technology comes in then what would we argue about in the pub , boring !

The second handball was quite close to his body, he didn't seem to move his hands, they were just by his side. I'd have probably been shouting for it if it was against Notts though 😀

To be honest even with VAN you still get mistakes to argue about in the pub so don't worry!

[navypie]

The second handball was quite close to his body, he didn't seem to move his hands, they were just by his side. I'd have probably been shouting for it if it was against Notts though ��

To be honest even with VAN you still get mistakes to argue about in the pub so don't worry!

Your not the bloke who sits behind me in the Pavis stand are you driller , he shouts for everything and swears blind Stead is fouled every time he goes up !