"Dash for Diesel"

[1959_60]

The Government back then ran a "consultation exercise" on vehicle tax and related environmental issues.

They were aware of the findings but chose not to act on them or make them public. The results of this have only just been made available under a FOI request which proved very difficult to obtain.

As for Trident, get rid. Waste of money, and one we will never use.

There are just 7 countries with nuclear weapons (eight if you include N Korea). Do you think that people of Germany, Spain, Italy, Australia etc etc feel vulnerable because they haven't got one?

[oldcolner]

Aye I remember now! Brown does not like the idea of spunking billions of pounds on Trident but could not afford the political backlash in Scotland if he scrapped it.

But the SNP wanted to scrap it too and still do Labour voted to keep it and were more concerned about the potential loss of jobs in a remote and rural area.

[sinkov]

There are just 7 countries with nuclear weapons (eight if you include N Korea). Do you think that people of Germany, Spain, Italy, Australia etc etc feel vulnerable because they haven't got one?

Using that logic 59/60 I could name you over 160 countries where the people don't feel vulnerable because they're not in the EU, but you think the UK, the world's 5th largest economy, would be. Ah well.

[1959_60]

Big difference Sinkov.

We have spent the last 40 years working and trading together - and it has worked brilliantly for us.
Now we are tearing up all these agreements and going it alone -without identifying where our trade will come from after 11PM March 29th 2019. So yes, we ARE vulnerable.

Just as Germany or France would be should they decide to leave.

Have you heard of REACH for instance?

Basically, it is a EU wide agreement detailing which chemicals are safe/unsafe when used in various ways. (Did you know that over 10,000 different chemicals are used in making a car? Neither did I).

Now, after we leave the EU, our chemical industry, which is one of our biggest exporters, will be unable to export these chemicals because we will no longer be in the REACH and will have to re-classify every single one of them (to EU standards) before we can continue to trade with Europe.

To put this in context, this industry is worth £55 billion to our economy.

Understandably, our chemical companies are very concerned.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/reach/whatisreach.htm

A bit more background here (written last December, but this massive issue has not been addressed at all since then)

https://chemicalwatch.com/51624/brex...ion-on-its-way

[sinkov]

Of course there are numerous problems to be overcome 59/60, but isn't that what politicisns and the civil service are for ? These problems can be resolved with goodwill and co-operation from both sides, but there will be difficulties because the EU will ensure there are, there is no goodwill or co-operation from them, and many on our side, having predicted a disaster, are only too willing to assist and encourage the EU in their intransigence.

As for trade, it will come from where it always has come from, trading is the lifeblood of nations, it will carry on whether we are in the EU or not. Are Mercedes, Renault and Fiat for instance going to refuse to sell their cars in the UK after we have left ?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

I'm sick and tired of this scare tactics malarkey.

We are British, we are resourceful and stoic, relentless and unified when the proverbial hits the fan. We will be reet!

[1959_60]

First of all....what a tremendous result. Let's both agree on something!

Of course they will still trade with us - but there will be tariffs. Our deal (if we get one) will not be as good as the current one. The EU don't want any other country to be able to exit with the same deal as they currently have. Basic common sense - and I don't blame them.

Regarding the argument "it will hurt them more than it will hurt us" - poppycock. Our economy will take a big hit. For them it will be business as usual - but they will find barriers in their trade with us.

Yes, there will be numerous problems to overcome, but these problems were unnecessary. We had a great trade deal with 27 other countries but we have shot ourselves in the foot. Now we will have to obey their laws in order to trade but we will have no say in making these laws.

We hear that there is a big world out there and we can divert trade to these places. This is flying by the seat of your pants stuff. We are leaving on a wing and a prayer hoping that we can do a massive amount of extra trade with others. Who? China? The recent trade talks with them didn't go too well. Similarly India.
Did you know that India, despite being in the Commonwealth, with our sovereign recently the head of their state, and with all the history between us, does THREE TIMES as much trade with Germany as it does with us? Why haven't we been trading more with these countries already if the business is so good?

Companies have been trading with their European trading partners for years, with very easy business. But they will suddenly find that there will be many challenges to continue their partnerships. WHY do we want to swap good, easy trade for harder trade? These businesses may well have to look further afield to make up the shortfall. As a recently retired businessman I can tell you that finding new trading partners in Asia, Africa, South America or wherever is bloody difficult, whereas the EU market was as easy as dealing with a UK company.

Regarding bodies such as REACH, Euratom, Erasmus and arrangements over flying regulations etc etc, all these issues will cause the UK untold heartache. Can you tell me of one of these bodies that you will celebrate us leaving? Because if we don't put our own bodies in place to replace them (which will cost £££) then we will be unable to trade with the EU - tariffs or not.

"We want to take back control". What a ridiculous statement. I was listening to an ex MEP last evening. He was in a meeting in Brussels with MEP's from France, Germany, Holland, Italy and Spain. There was a Norwegian present as well, as a result of them having a trade deal with the EU.
At a certain time they had to leave the meeting because they had to finalise a piece of legislation that required input from these MEP's. The Norwegian wasn't allowed to partake in this because Norway is not a full member. Come March 2019, during the "transition period" that will be our role. Yet the UK is widely regarded throughout the EU as being the major driver for legislation, and our input is always sought.
Now we will have no say in these matters - but we will have to obey the rules that they will make. So our importance will be severely diminished. Rather than "taking back control" we have handed away our control.

Then there is the Irish border issue, and the......etc etc

The UK must have had a collective nervous breakdown last June.

[Altobelli]

We are British, we are resourceful and stoic, relentless and unified when the proverbial hits the fan. We will be reet!

I'd disagree, we are Gullible and easily lead.

[sinkov]

Dear me 59/60, I don't know how you manage to sleep of a night. Just ponder on this, if we can't trade with them, they can't trade with us, and Germany alone had a trade surplus of £27 billion in 2014. They may well have the strongest economy in Europe, but is Merkel prepared to take a £27 billion hit to to the German economy with the consequent job losses ? All those warnings about lorries tailed back from Dover to London, if that is the case then they'll also be tailed back from Zeebrugge to Brussels, from Calais to Paris, but they don't mention that. There is the threat of planes not being able to fly out of the UK to Europe, if that is the case then planes won't be able to fly from European airports to the UK, but they don't mention that. Project Fear said 3 million UK jobs could be lost if we leave the single market and customs union, one glance at the trade figures and it's obvious then that 5 million jobs could be lost in the EU, but they don't tell you that.

The EU may well be prepared to inflict damage on it's own economies to illustrate the folly of a country leaving, there's nothing to be done if that is the case, we'll just have to take the hit, but why on earth would anyone wish to remain in an organisation which behaves in such a manner. The more intransigent they are, the more clear it becomes that leaving was the sensible decision.

In the meantime, keep,taking the tablets.

[1959_60]

I sleep very well Sinkov.

Because I am retired I will be minimally affected by Brexit. I don't have to worry about setting up trade deals like I used to.
I actually DO worry about my country though. And I am certain that we have made a monumental mistake, which will affect us in many ways.

Yes, of course we will still deal with European companies - but only on the EU's terms.

There will be tariffs which will affect both sides, and we will still have to obey the EU regulations if we wish to sell to them.
Britain will certainly not be as attractive a country to do trade with in the future. Why would they buy British stuff if there is an alternative in another EU country which is not subjected to tariffs, border checks etc?

I agree with BT that one of our better national traits is that, in times of challenge, we pull together for the nations good. But these times of challenge inevitable mean that we become poorer as a nation (the world wars for instance). These were necessary times of hardship that were generally not chosen by us. Leaving the EU is a self inflicted wound.
But don't worry BT, it will not be the rich and powerful that will suffer. As usual, it will be ordinary people like us.

Keep calm and carry on.