O/T Petrol and diesel is finished....at last

[seriouspie]

Have a look at the Beeston scheme on the Trent:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeston_Hydro

Not sure why there aren't more of them, maybe there are? Still pretty small scale and ecological issues.

Nice one Old_pie as I was unaware of the Beeston plant. Obviously the current operators and the original designers have had plenty of time to evaluate the system - and if better than wind turbines and panels in all aspects - I suppose there would be more built, however I know not why! Like every proposal connected to utilising natural resources many ecological factors have to be observed, as they should, before any decisions are made.

One example is the proposed new sand and gravel plant near Newark. The Trent valley has arguably the best quality gypsum, sand and pebble deposits in the country - seen by the number of works within it's boundaries - but although these minerals are comparatively easy to extract, many local environmental issues are there to be overcome.

If I were an expert on anything, it would be the sizing down of various minerals from their 'as dug' or 'blasted' state although i have in the past been involved in the shredding of tyres to be used as a non fossil fuel - by cement works, but again too many bad emissions were experienced by burning the rubber on it's own.

Frankly I'll be dead and buried long before the 'electric car age' is prominent so it would be easy to say I'll carry on as usual but I do happen to think that by this time comes around many of the existing environmental problems in all aspects will be solved.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

So in one fell swoop you (and the government) have ruled out the potential of hydrogen fueled vehicles, further development of natural gas engines and even the possibility that additives or technology would render petrol/diesel clean.

One of the most damaging causes of pollution has been a previous government's push for diesel, a problem they were well aware of as also was any thermodynamic engineer http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715

And in the unlikely event that there will be enough electricity production to cater for our society (we're perilously close to limits now and don't let watts of green blind you into the megawatt requirements) then you can be sure that's where the tax shortfalls will be made up.

Finally, and to be clear, I am not anti-green. I don't regard destruction of orang-utang habitats for palm oil as being green, I don't regard flooding valleys and destroying communities and habitats as being green, I don't regard altering the whole ecology of estuaries as being green, and those bloody bird-slicing windmills all over our lovely countryside, aren't green either. The government should merely state their targets for pollution levels without stipulating what technologies they wish innovation to follow. If the answer, when all factors are considered, ends up being a green production of electricity then all well and good but don't preclude all other technologies, that should not be their job.

If you are aware of Electric Mountain (if not look it up) it can produce approximately 1800MW (1800000 kw) of power for about 6 hours and then uses off-peak power to replenish the top reservoir. An obvious green solution would be to use solar power to push the water back up. Rough estimates are that the whole of Wales would have to be covered in solar panels and there to be a sunny day to do this. And Electric Mountain is just there to cover sudden loads like cups of tea during a popular TV program break. That's to put the scale of the issue into perspective and now we want to put a few million cars on overnight charge as well!

Don Quixote and tilting and windmills come to mind and I won't be around to see the folly of it all. Oh, unless nuclear gets full backing of course and then we'll be rocking.

Some good points you make. I’m in agreement about the governments push for diesel. Also in that the government should set targets and not steer us towards certain technologies. I think they have to be seen to be backing something or maybe trying to undo the promotion of diesel cars made at the turn of this century?

There are numerous technologies that can and should form part of our means of transport. One prime example is the use of biofuels. I’m not talking about farmers growing rape seed oil and thus taking up valuable land that could be used for food farming but Biogas. The type that uses refuse and sewage and converts it to gas via a process called anaerobic digestion. On our doorstep Nottingham City Transport have this year brought the worlds largest fleet of biogas buses. Buses and lorries have traditionally always been seen as dirty vehicles so alternative fuels in this department is welcomed the way I see it, and it’s good a local company is taking the lead.

Hydrogen Fuel cells are the utopia for me. If we could fuel our vehicles with Hydrogen and Oxygen and the bi-products were water then this would be the best and better than electric cars in my opinion. But for now Electric is in the lead.

Batteries are one area that I think mankind has not advanced sufficiently in comparison to other developments post WW2 in my view. Our ability to store energy has fallen behind, other technological developments but I’m optimistic that advances are being made.

Commercial airline travel and the amount of fossil fuel used for air travel is something that needs to be reduced drastically this century. We can only go so far in making lighter and more fuel efficient aircraft. Most aircraft spend their time above the clouds in pure sunlight so solar cells may assist. But to develop an alternative engine to an aircrafts combustion engine is revolutionary.

It will be interesting to see how things change from 2001 to 2099 in terms of our use of fuels but most of us alive today will be gone by the end of this century so will only see it change up to a point.

[queenslandpie]

No one is stopping me filling up at Morrisons with petrol to claim my points for a few quid off beer. Sod global warming, its all a hoax anyway.

At the end of the day you have to start somewhere. My next car will be as electric as it can be.

[adlestropred]

No one is stopping me filling up at Morrisons with petrol to claim my points for a few quid off beer. Sod global warming, its all a hoax anyway.

You will stop.When was the last time you used 4_star petrol?

[tarquinbeech]

In one of the fastest and most astonishing turnarounds in the history of energy, building and running new renewable energy is now cheaper than just running existing coal and nuclear plants in many areas.

A widely-used yearly benchmarking study — the Levelized Cost of Energy Analysis (LCOE) from the financial firm Lazard Ltd. — reached this stunning conclusion: In many regions “the full-lifecycle costs of building and operating renewables-based projects have dropped below the operating costs alone of conventional generation technologies such as coal or nuclear.”

Lazard focused on the cost of a power for a plant over its entire lifetime in North America, and how the “increasing economic advantage of renewables in the U.S.” will drive even deeper penetration of solar and wind here.

Full article here:

https://thinkprogress.org/solar-wind...38350fb95/amp/

[tarquinbeech]

.....and this is what I was trying to explain a few days ago...V2G, Vehicle to grid.....a "tipping point" will occur once x-number of EVs are on the road.....each car contains a huge battery, multiply that by 5 million cars, 10 million...even 50 million, and there is no need for power stations....both the BBC and the Times have now picked up on this

http://www.v2g.co.uk/2017/11/v2g-exp...nstream-media/

[Old_pie]

.....and this is what I was trying to explain a few days ago...V2G, Vehicle to grid.....a "tipping point" will occur once x-number of EVs are on the road.....each car contains a huge battery, multiply that by 5 million cars, 10 million...even 50 million, and there is no need for power stations....both the BBC and the Times have now picked up on this

http://www.v2g.co.uk/2017/11/v2g-exp...nstream-media/

Brilliant!

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Now, where did I put those designs for a perpetual motion machine?