Government lose Brexit vote

[The Bedlington Terrier]

I don't even know why we bother debating on here. This government is totally unfit for purpose and do not give a toss about anything other than holding on to power.

People just do not matter...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...imes?CMP=fb_gu

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Apologies, I should have put 'meaningful' before both mentions of the word 'vote'.

I'm tired of the excuses. The Tories have prevaricated and messed about for the best part of two years sinkov.

No exit plan, no risk assessment, no nothing.

No one to blame for this fiasco but this shower of s-h-i-t-e who cannot even find congruence amongst their own members...

Attachment 7553

[oldcolner]

Talk of the EU changing the game by demanding legally binding agreements on the three issues, before trade talks can begin and that will take at least 3 months.
Westminster has now undermined the negotiating team and cut the negotiating teams time for discussions by three months as well as the Lords wanting their say.
Then the EU are now saying they can’t agree a trade deal till we have left anyway. Remember 27 other Parliaments have also to agree and it needs only one to say no to kill it
That sounds like a so called hard Brexit is on the cards to me.

The crunch vote to set a date to leave for March 2019 is now one that Remoaners will want to sabotage.

[1959_60]

[QUOTE=sinkov;38730542]59/60 I think you still misunderstand my position and the situation.

There is no consensus whatsoever on the deal we should seek, or what sort of relationship we should have with the EU after Brexit, so it falls inevitably to the government to decide how we proceed and what we aim for. So whether you like May or not, trust her or not, think she's incompetent as I do, there is simply no alternative, the government has to do the deal.

Once it's done, it can be scrutinised in parliament if you like, it can be voted on if you like, but as I keep saying it's a pointless exercise, you take no notice of what I say, so please have a look at this from the Telegraph

December 2017 • 8:30pm
"Tory rebels have increased the chances of a “no deal” Brexit by giving Theresa May less time to negotiate a good deal for Britain, EU leaders have warned. By insisting they have a “meaningful vote” on the final deal, the mutineers have weakened Mrs May’s hand because Brussels knows anything she agrees could be overturned by Parliament. She will also have to allow time for the vote to happen, cutting short the time available for reaching a satisfactory agreement with the EU. Together, the two factors make it less likely that she will achieve the best possible deal, EU leaders said, and if Parliament rejects what is on offer Britain will crash out of the EU without a deal. Brussels will not renegotiate, meaning the vote will still be a “take it or leave it” choice. Danuta Hübner, a Polish MEP who chairs the European parliament’s constitutional affairs committee, said: “Once it is finalised and it is signed by both parties, then any change to it means reopening negotiations, meaning we will not make it within the two years, meaning there is a hard Brexit.”

Which is precisely what I've been saying for months, the vote on the deal will be 'take it or leave it', this idea that we can go back and re-negotiate is a fantasy. Don't just take my word for it, it's what the EU are saying, we accept the deal, or leave without one. So I'm not against our MPs scrutinising the deal, it's just that it's self-defeating and hugely increases the chances of us leaving with no trade deal at all. Is that what you really want ?[/QUOTE

Two points there Sinkov, Theresa May has already promised a debate and vote on the final deal. The vote in Parliament this week will just make this legally binding. You didn't think she would go back on her word, did you?

In the quote from above, it says that "Once it is finalised and it is signed by both parties," which is obviously not going to happen until Parliament has voted. I agree, once it is agreed and signed by both parties then it is a binding agreement.

And don't forget, the EU will also be debating and voting on the final deal - and quite right to.

[oldcolner]

The EU has laid down its terms for Phase 2.

http://www.consilium.europa.eu//medi...delines-en.pdf

As the EU have recently agreed a free trade deal with Canada for goods, that would seem to be the model to pursue for us by adding in services and customs. Free trade in goods would be ideal, I guess there may be a premium for services.

[Supersub6]

I was really filled with confidence after watching Dianne Abbott on Andrew Marr this morning. I am so confident that, should she ever become Home Secretary, the country will descend further into the mire at an even quicker rate.
She was proof, if proof were needed, that yet another political party does not have a clue about the EU and Brexit.

[oldcolner]

Or much else, but 62% of her voters in Hackney and Stoke Newington love her for some reason. Numbers not her strong point, but Jeremy loved her too.

[army88]

Or much else, but 62% of her voters in Hackney and Stoke Newington love her for some reason. Numbers not her strong point, but Jeremy loved her too.

In my humble opinion we are all getting into a tizz about something that will disintegrate when we’re out
Its about us , the Germans and France contributions.

We’re coming out , th Germans are torn between the left and the right with a hung parliament and a want as a country to go back to there own currency.

The French as always will leave if the above happens ——- Brussels and it’s hypocritical beurocrats will be no more.

Posted on here before all the time this has gone on our position weakend not just with a deal but trading outside the Eu with other countries.
They are sat watching us to see how we negotiate and handle ourselves the answer is badly.

I’m pretty sure most of what we get from Europe is do able from else where and the other countries sat behind the Brussels banner know this , so the levy and charges would be irrelevant if they still wan t to deal with us .
In reality a tight knit gentleman s club in Brussels is frightened to death that it’s going to lose face and of course the money and the power ( that’s what this is really about ).
The domino effect is coming ——