Quality not quantity

[occult]

Rafa's purchases have added quantity but not quality to the squad with the result that we have a squad of mediocrities so team selection doesn't matter. It doesn't matter which eleven players start the game because the whole squad is at the same level. I know he hasn't had a fortune to spend but in my view he should have bought fewer, better players. One purchase in particular, Joselu, has been a disaster because not only is he useless but he's kept better strikers out of the team. I know he scored against Leicester but anyone could have scored that goal. He'll never score the goal that Mahrez scored nor even the goals Gayle scores. If Rafa's transfer budget is, as reported, about £20m this won't make a blind bit of difference even with loan arrangements. If there were £50m to spend, which is unlikely, you'd get a new keeper, for say £10m and two outfield players for £20m each, and even £20m is not a lot at today's prices. So I repeat, in the last transfer window we should have bought perhaps only 2 players which were a real step up in quality. The wage bill would have probably been the same as that for 5 mediocre players. I fear that anything less than £50m will be a waste of time and I'm afraid I don't hold out much hope of Rafa getting more out of the existing squad so it will save a lot of his time if he simply records a short speech to be played after each game to the effect: 'We started well but then we made mistakes. In the Premier League you can't afford to make these mistakes. But we must work hard and stick together so that things will improve.' I'm afraid that working hard and sticking together isn't enough.

[HughieG]

Rafa's purchases have added quantity but not quality to the squad with the result that we have a squad of mediocrities so team selection doesn't matter. It doesn't matter which eleven players start the game because the whole squad is at the same level. I know he hasn't had a fortune to spend but in my view he should have bought fewer, better players. One purchase in particular, Joselu, has been a disaster because not only is he useless but he's kept better strikers out of the team. I know he scored against Leicester but anyone could have scored that goal. He'll never score the goal that Mahrez scored nor even the goals Gayle scores. If Rafa's transfer budget is, as reported, about £20m this won't make a blind bit of difference even with loan arrangements. If there were £50m to spend, which is unlikely, you'd get a new keeper, for say £10m and two outfield players for £20m each, and even £20m is not a lot at today's prices. So I repeat, in the last transfer window we should have bought perhaps only 2 players which were a real step up in quality. The wage bill would have probably been the same as that for 5 mediocre players. I fear that anything less than £50m will be a waste of time and I'm afraid I don't hold out much hope of Rafa getting more out of the existing squad so it will save a lot of his time if he simply records a short speech to be played after each game to the effect: 'We started well but then we made mistakes. In the Premier League you can't afford to make these mistakes. But we must work hard and stick together so that things will improve.' I'm afraid that working hard and sticking together isn't enough.

Should've, should've, hindsight, hindsight... No, I get your point mate, but the players Rafa tried to get over the line - who were better than the ones we ended up signing - weren't available or went somewhere else. This is well-documented.

Now, all of a sudden, as both Elliot and Darlow are short of form, people are pouring criticism over Rafa for selling Krul. I personally cannot remember anyone who was upset we had sold Krul back in the summer, if only for sentimental reasons, as he clearly had deteriorated as a playyer and had not impressed on loan in the Netherlands. Oh well, maybe people just forgot to say it.....

I'm also scratching my head that Joselu is getting this many games when Mitrovic is clearly light years ahead of him (well, that's my opinion). Whomever we have as a manager, there will always be things I - or we as fans - disagree with. It would be strange if everybody thought that everything Rafa is doing is correct or the right way. I'm just saying he's not to blame for our current situation, in fact he's the reason we're in the Premier League.

Also, it would be very hard to find a player with the ability of Mahrez to come to Newcastle at the moment, you're a little dreamy there...

[occult]

A few things: I wasn't suggesting we could sign Mahrez or anyone else of that quality. What I was intending to say about Joselu is that if you cannot sign someone better than what you've got, don't waste your money. Nor do I criticise Rafa for selling Krul. My main point is that if you've got a fixed sum of money, better sign two or even one better players than 4 or 5 mediocre ones. Just about everyone is saying that we've got a squad of Championship players but quite a few of those have been bought since promotion. Rafa hasn't been able to buy his first or maybe second choices but I don't think he's the only manager, apart from the top 6, in that position. Burnley is an example of what can be done with limited resources.

[HughieG]

A few things: I wasn't suggesting we could sign Mahrez or anyone else of that quality. What I was intending to say about Joselu is that if you cannot sign someone better than what you've got, don't waste your money. Nor do I criticise Rafa for selling Krul. My main point is that if you've got a fixed sum of money, better sign two or even one better players than 4 or 5 mediocre ones. Just about everyone is saying that we've got a squad of Championship players but quite a few of those have been bought since promotion. Rafa hasn't been able to buy his first or maybe second choices but I don't think he's the only manager, apart from the top 6, in that position. Burnley is an example of what can be done with limited resources.

And Burnley have done well. No question. But you can't say that just because Burnley is a successful team this season - right now - that we should've been able to do the same. That's not how it works. I would probably agree with you in the specific case of Joselu, but I'm not sure you're right about signing two "quality" players either as opposed to buy cover and competition for various positions - and I don't know who those players would've been.

[Jammy89]

But Burnley got the big TV money injection meaning they could afford to spend on quality.

I don't actually disagree with your main point - i'd rather spend everything we have on 2 quality players (comparatively to what we have now) in Jan than fill 6 positions with 5/6th choice.

[HughieG]

But Burnley got the big TV money injection meaning they could afford to spend on quality.

I don't actually disagree with your main point - i'd rather spend everything we have on 2 quality players (comparatively to what we have now) in Jan than fill 6 positions with 5/6th choice.

In January, yes. That might be a good idea. But the summer is when you build your team for the coming season, and I know that this board would have been fuming had we only brought in two players to add to the shyte (dare I say?) we already had. And again, who would these players be? Not quality enough I'm sure for us to be able to buy them off another club and have them come in and land us safely in the top 10. No way.

[Jammy89]

In January, yes. That might be a good idea. But the summer is when you build your team for the coming season, and I know that this board would have been fuming had we only brought in two players to add to the shyte (dare I say?) we already had. And again, who would these players be? Not quality enough I'm sure for us to be able to buy them off another club and have them come in and land us safely in the top 10. No way.

I'm not disagreeing with you there

Sorry to both i've not been very clear. I mean in Jan i'd be happy with the two quality players.

[occult]

Much has been made about Rafa not getting what he asked for. I don't deny that but do you think that Chris Hughton or Wagner, manager of Huddersfield, hand the owner a list of their first choices and the owner says, no problem, I'll buy them all. Same with Pulis, when in post or maybe any other manager outside the top 6. Managers of smaller clubs have to accept this.

[toonlegend]

Much has been made about Rafa not getting what he asked for. I don't deny that but do you think that Chris Hughton or Wagner, manager of Huddersfield, hand the owner a list of their first choices and the owner says, no problem, I'll buy them all. Same with Pulis, when in post or maybe any other manager outside the top 6. Managers of smaller clubs have to accept this.

aye but they probably bought some.... whereas did we buy any??? i don't think so.

[HughieG]

I'm not disagreeing with you there

Sorry to both i've not been very clear. I mean in Jan i'd be happy with the two quality players.

You were perfectly clear, I just had to over-emphasize my point for clarity I guess

Much has been made about Rafa not getting what he asked for. I don't deny that but do you think that Chris Hughton or Wagner, manager of Huddersfield, hand the owner a list of their first choices and the owner says, no problem, I'll buy them all. Same with Pulis, when in post or maybe any other manager outside the top 6. Managers of smaller clubs have to accept this.

No, I think you're right there. The question is; how much do you think those two players could have improved our squad - or to what extent would you have wanted them to? Surely we can agree that we're not candidates for the Top 10, even if Burnley are. Yet we're "only" five places below 10th.

The same way that our signings could be argued to be chances that we took (lottery coupons), the same way Wagner and Huddersfield took a lot of chances signing the players they did. Their goalkeeper is a loanee who was a backup player for a midtable German team. One of their central defenders wasn't even that highly rated in the best Danish league, we all thought he would be dead sure to fail in the Premier League. Both have been surprisingly good. Good for them - and for the fans of Huddersfield. Our signings (except for Merino) haven't paid off. That stinks. But who's to blame? In the end, Rafa has the responsibility for this - but can't we be a bit nuanced about this? We're a newly-promoted team, also with a limited budget. The players, old and new, haven't performed to the standards of the PL, not lately at least. So... we're not the fairytale story of the season, but not all teams are privileged enough to be just that.

I get you're point, but I do think most fans would've taken being 15th as opposed to 18th in the table now if they'd been asked in the summer (maybe not some of the delusional ones on here ).

Occult, can you name any two players that realistically we could've signed to improve our squad quite a lot more? Just asking out of curiosity - I definitely see where you're coming from, mate.