OT- The Queen's Christmas Day Message to the Commonwealth

[swaledale]

lol at your enduring bitterness, you come over as a Will Self tribute act

As always you miss the point and are completely wrong. Surprised you even understand Will Self, thought his irony would be too subtle for you!

There is no bitterness, just an observation! Brexit for me personally as I've said before (and been attacked for saying it by you amongst others) is paying nicely into my pension pot. As the pro brexit forces crow about blue passports and "taking back control" whilst presiding over a change which will not improve the lives of the majority of those who voted for it one bit it amuses me that Turkeys still vote for Christmas, as the serfs vote for the pleasure of doffing their caps to those born into a "higher strata of society".

Still its good to see you as smug and self satisfied as ever truly in the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is King!

[swaledale]

I suspect that yet again you’ve misinterpreted Swale’s comment, Andy. The ‘knuckleheads’ comment doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone who voted for Brexit is a ‘knucklehead’...the crucial words are ‘shored up the vote’ and that is surely true. A significant proportion - by no means all - of Brexit support had it’s roots in racism as the murder of Jo Cox and the behaviour of a minority in the immediate aftermath of the referendum would indicate. I feel they are the ‘knuckleheads who shored up the vote’ to whom Swale refers.

As regards the meritocracy issue...so much of our society already works as a meritocracy imo. Meritocratic values...work hard, make the most of your education, stand on your own two feet etc...are surely already deeply engrained in our society...that is why I find it so odd that the hierarchical aristocracy still has such a stranglehold over us.

I’m also not sure why we need a President to replace the Queen/Monarch. Our current system of government is fit for purpose imo, even if the practitioners aren’t. Why add another tier?

Anag regrettably he is incapable of interpreting anything outside his rather narrow perspective on life.

[Rob_the_Ram]

I’m proud of being British.
I’m proud of our royal family and especially the Queen.
The heirs seem to be forward looking and are held in high esteem around the world.
Why want to change the traditions of a millennia.
Of course only figureheads but OUR figureheads of our great country.
Long Live The Queen!!

[ramAnag]

I’m proud of being British.
I’m proud of our royal family and especially the Queen.
The heirs seem to be forward looking and are held in high esteem around the world.
Why want to change the traditions of a millennia.
Of course only figureheads but OUR figureheads of our great country.
Long Live The Queen!!

I’m proud of some aspects of being British too Rob, but the Queen, or at least the Royal Family, doesn’t feature for me.
Things I’m proud of...the NHS, or it’s aspirations anyway, our countryside and landscape - particularly the Peak District, Lake District and Snowdonia, our sporting achievements (for a small country), our contributions to the world’s of music and literature.
I’m also ashamed of some things to do with being British...eg...our sense of self importance, our divided society and our, all too often, behaviour towards foreigners and attitudes abroad.
Works both ways...wonder what others are proud or possibly ashamed of.

[Rob_the_Ram]

I bet it’s great in your house not being able to make a general comment without it being stripped apart and caveats left right and centre

[roger_ramjet]

This time of year I am proud of Stilton Cheese - blessed are the cheesemakers.

I am proud of our nation's entrepreneurial spirit and historic involvement in many many inventions and developments that have furthered mankind. Regrettably this does not include pride in someone putting manky sweets in pretty jars and claiming them as "classy, high end"

I am proud of our history and achievements of the past when judged by the morals of the time - yes I know slavery was a bit naughty and resource exploitation a tad unfair - but everyone was doing it, so why not us. let he who is without sin cast the first stone - put it down Francisco Pizarro and Hernan Cortes for Spain etc etc

I am proud of how we stood up to European dictators seeking to conquer the continent - Napoleon, the Kaiser. Hitler, Juncker. Note to Swale - I have not said that we single handedly defeated....!

Basically, apart from the cheese, I am proud of the historic context into which I was born, but, like ramAnag I think, recognise that the past is the past and that we are now but a pawn in the game of thrones. I dont have a problem with the hangovers of that era, including the toned down monarchy that we now have, and do not take on the wringing handed guilt from our history that some seem to (not directed at anyone on here).

What I do find curious though is that a pro european lobbyist such as rA is against a monarchy that has historically attempted to join up the legal structures of the european nations via interbreeding of royal households from various countries - including several that no longer exist. lets just start with France Germany Netherlands Norway Sweden Denmark Greece Belgium (Flanders) Romania Russia Spain (Aragon Castille Navarre) Portugal (Braganza) Italy (Modena) Scotland (!) and, god help us, potentially America. An almost perfect european union!

[KingCharlieGeorge]

Next time anyone wants an elected President as head of state instead of a monarch, just look across the Atlantic. Rather have Trump?

And then answer me - who was the last President that came from neither a privileged class or fanily, nor as a designated runner from wealthy interest groups?

There's no need to have a Presidency that combines the roles of head of state and prime minister. Countries such as Ireland cope well with a "ceremonial" President. So there ends that part of the debate!

It is an anachronism to have a royal head of state in a parliamentary democracy. There should be no privilege or patronage involved in deciding our leaders and no offshoring of tens of trillions of £ to avoid/evade taxation.

If only the Levellers had won the Civil War and bumped off Cromwell!!

[Romanis]

Where did the money come from to buy/build all those palaces?

It's hers passed down from Monarch's past. If we remove her as Queen all these palaces belong to her and the rest of royal family who own minor castles

[Romanis]

But it’s not a ‘key issue’ Rom. By your own earlier admission the debatable occasions when she has had to become remotely meaningfully involved were in 1957,1963 and 1974.

I repeat, she has done nothing wrong and has probably done a great many things ‘admirably’, the question though is...do we want to live in a meritocracy or be subject to an aristocracy where individuals achieve positions within the establishment via accident of birth and family affiliation? I appreciate our current crop of politicians and leading civil servants seem a particularly poor advert for meritocratic achievement but surely in 2017 it is time to favour ‘leadership’ achieved via meritocracy rather than aristocratic accident.

Contrary, the fact she remains is why things like 1957, 1963, 1974 and 2010 are avoided. She forces the politicians to come to their senses to avoid her using her Reserve Powers. No one wants the Queen to be put in a difficult position out of respect and deference.
If it was a Presidency, results would be different because the elected President would feel compelled to stamp his mark.

[ramAnag]

I bet it’s great in your house not being able to make a general comment without it being stripped apart and caveats left right and centre

Unusually harsh Rob...just making the point that one can be proud of one’s country but still want things to change.