A Second Brexit Referendum..?

[1959_60]

I'm afraid the tide is turning very quickly against you lads.

Latest poll..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8154946.html

Basically, if we re-ran the referendum then remain would win 55-45.

Labour voters would vote 75-25 to remain.
Tory voters would vote 70-30 to leave.

66% of people had little confidence that Theresa May can get us a good deal. 30% thought she could.

Labour voters support a second referendum by 64-31
The Tories are against one.

The tide of public opinion has changed and it's not just me you have to convince.

Yes, the final deal will be a very large document. But the important points will be known - not guessed or lied about - they will be there in black and white.

At that stage we will know what the implications are, and we should be able to have our say on it.

Why are you against the democratic will of the people?

[sinkov]

I wish you'd make your mind up 59/60, you seem to be going round in circles. In post 14 you said you didn't want a 2nd referendum, but that snap poll of 1,000 people in a lefty propaganda sheet that's got you so excited, was on the result of a 2nd referendum you say we shouldn't have. The other poll mentioned, ComRes in that other lefty rag the Mirror, actually showed a majority against holding a 2nd referendum, but despite this being the position you claim to hold, you never mentioned that. Which is odd, is it not, for a man who claims to know what he wants ?

Still never mind, the continuing saga of the person claiming to be the only true believer in democracy on this forum, earnestly wishing to reverse the result of a referendum and deny the wishes of the majority, is certainly entertaining, if not very edifying.

[1959_60]

Good Morning Sinkov - just about to go to the Lakes to attempt another Wainwright so this will be my last word today

Where on earth have I said that I don't want a second referendum? Of course I do.

But the first referendum ("Shall we leave?") has already been done and sorted - that is clear.

The second referendum asks a totally different question ("Do you support the final deal?")

The poll I attached above (I didn't see the Mirror one) was to show that the mood of the country appears to be shifting, but I would never advocate a re-run of the first referendum, well, not for a good few years anyway. Even though I agree with David Davies "If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy"

My opinion, along with a rapidly growing number of others, is that we should have the second (different) referendum.

Whatever the result I will then be happy.

[oldcolner]

Good Morning Sinkov - just about to go to the Lakes to attempt another Wainwright so this will be my last word today

Where on earth have I said that I don't want a second referendum? Of course I do.

But the first referendum ("Shall we leave?") has already been done and sorted - that is clear.

The second referendum asks a totally different question ("Do you support the final deal?")

The poll I attached above (I didn't see the Mirror one) was to show that the mood of the country appears to be shifting, but I would never advocate a re-run of the first referendum, well, not for a good few years anyway. Even though I agree with David Davies "If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy"

My opinion, along with a rapidly growing number of others, is that we should have the second (different) referendum.

Whatever the result I will then be happy.

Enjoy the hils. Interesting that the Tories are for leaving as they weren’t at the beginning, likewise Labour was I though more for leaving originally. Is that just to offer something different as Labour Party policy on it is a shamble.
Good to see BT is now with the Tories, but can he sleep at nights?

A second referendum with a different question would be a first referendum on something else! A re-run of the original question is too late.
So what would the question be?

How many of these things will folk want?

Do you want to pay 10% more tax for the NHS?
Which tax?
Should diesel cars be banned.?
Do we want nuclear weapons?
How many immigrants should we allow?

Just wondered what would be the answer if the people were asked
Should Burnley be in the Premier League?

Referenda are once in a generation things. The SNP leaders are slowly coming to realise that, though their membership are not.

The SNP now run consultations that only the active know about eg diesel cars being banned from city centres and this one got 95% support from this who responded. The fact they depend on the Greens in their coalition and only the SNP and the Greens knew about the consultation shows how these things can be manipulated.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

You are going on about lefty propaganda again sinkov but the reality is Corbyn is very ambivalent towards the EU.

What fuels Corbyn's anxiety is that at present he can command about 25% of the electorate in a General Election. On a low turn out that might squeeze him into Downing Street.

I think it is true that 78% of Labour voters want a second referendum but half of those seem to want to reaffirm a Leave vote.

But two thirds of CLP's voted to exit. Corbyn quite simply cannot jeopardise his chances of winning an election if he appears to go against the wishes of two thirds of the constituencies who could see him win the next election.

A conundrum wrapped inside an enigma for our beloved Leader!

What encourages me in all of this drama is that the people who live in Great Britain carry on stoically, work, trade, travel and do not seem at all the worse for "Project Fear".

Fcuk the EU and all it stands for!

[army88]

Seems like Farage is open to the idea?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018...-need-another/

Apparently, 78% of UK citizens want another one too?

Would we vote to "Leave" again I wonder?

I know, I would!

The politicians dipping there toe in test the water ( in the distant hope we might be able to go back to someone else making all the decisions for them whilst we pay for the privilege, oh and accept lots more immigrants ).

They really are a spineless lot of whom there isn't a good one among them ( all parties that is BT sorry ) neither labour or conservative have the backbone to take us forward which is a pretty sad when a country is looking for leadership after a legal vote and the people who so called represent us are bickering amongst themselves instead of making Great Britain what it was ( clues in the name ).
Very disappointed in politics in general at the minute, the one thing I do know is we can't go back to the Eu if we ever want to be a forward thinking country.

[oldcolner]

BT
Re your last comment.
Some of the EU is good and sensible
I am happy to be part of a free trade EEC, and a European customs union but DEFINITELY not of a superstate run by unelected political nonenty civil servants from minor Countries and under the control of Germany and maybe France.
Who comes after Mrs Merkel, possibly some right wing loon called Hilter or Goballs?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

BT
Re your last comment.
Some of the EU is good and sensible
I am happy to be part of a free trade EEC, and a European customs union but DEFINITELY not of a superstate run by unelected political nonenty civil servants from minor Countries and under the control of Germany and maybe France.
Who comes after Mrs Merkel, possibly some right wing loon called Hilter or Goballs?

Or a Trump like right wing lunatic?

[sinkov]

You are going on about lefty propaganda again sinkov but the reality is Corbyn is very ambivalent towards the EU.

The lefty propaganda I'm referring to BT is the Indy snap poll of 1,000 people. I can guarantee you 100 percent that if the Indy, the Grauniad, the Mirror, the LibDems or the BBC ran a snap poll on the EU, they would all show a majority to Remain. If the Mail, the Express or Ukip ran the same poll they would all show a majority to Leave. It's easy to do, we both know that's the way it works, but 59/60 seems blissfully unaware, and clings to this 'lefty propaganda' like a drowning man to his lifebelt.

Opinion polls, even those conducted properly by professional organisations, have proved notoriously unreliable over the last few years, a snap poll of 1,000 people is simply not to be taken seriously, but some do.

[sinkov]

Good Morning Sinkov - just about to go to the Lakes to attempt another Wainwright so this will be my last word today

Where on earth have I said that I don't want a second referendum? Of course I do.

But the first referendum ("Shall we leave?") has already been done and sorted - that is clear.

The second referendum asks a totally different question ("Do you support the final deal?")

The poll I attached above (I didn't see the Mirror one) was to show that the mood of the country appears to be shifting, but I would never advocate a re-run of the first referendum, well, not for a good few years anyway. Even though I agree with David Davies "If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy"

My opinion, along with a rapidly growing number of others, is that we should have the second (different) referendum.

Whatever the result I will then be happy.

Morning 59/60, I'm sure you had a good day in the Lakes, some days are better than others, but there no bad days in the fells, providing you don't break your ankle or fall off Jack's Rake.

So, despite being perfectly content over 40 years to have an unelected bureaucracy in a foreign country negotiate our country's trade deals, you now want to have a vote on whether the one our democratically elected government negotiates is to your taste. I find this inconsistency bordering on the bizarre, but each to his own I suppose.

So, what do you want, bearing in mind two things, that you say you have accepted the result of the referendum and that we must leave
the EU, and that M. Barnier has clearly stated that as we are leaving the EU we cannot remain in the Single Market or Customs Union.

What are your red lines ? What could be in the deal to make you vote against it ? What must be in the deal to make you vote for it ? If the vote goes against it and we refuse to accept the deal, what then ?

As M Barnier says, the clock is ticking, by the time the deal has been concluded and voted upon, the clock will have ticked a lot more, we will be very, very close to leaving the EU. The speed they move at, they aren't even prepared to begin negotiations on the deal until March, there will be no time for renegotiation, no time to get further agreement from all 27 EU countries, which must happen first, and then vote on it again in this country. Time constraints simply make it impracticable.

So you get your vote, we vote against, we leave the EU........with no deal ?